We have a pretty deep roll-call of people who get over those injuries and compete well after college too.
We have a pretty deep roll-call of people who get over those injuries and compete well after college too.
What about C-Severy he is up there on the fast course track with Jorge
Well, Coach Vigil is masterful for sure. Craig Dixon was an ex-Vigilante that ran pretty well upon moving to Boulder and training under Mark after College. I don't think that terrain, elevation or Mark's program cause the injuries. There does seem to be a theme of "defying Mark in order to train harder" common to most of the injured over the past decade.
high plains desert wrote:
it certainly seems uncanny that way. i was a vigilante and we certainly didn't seem to have near the number of injuries that come out of boulder. we were at higher altitude- so i don't think that's it. we did high mileage- i don't think that's it either. just really hate to see it. of course, dr. joe really knew how to tweak us just right.
yeah a buddy of mine ran 25:30's there last year and just missed (about 10 sec or so) breaking 14mins in the 5k
page 21 of 64 has the top times
make that pg 34
Looks like 25:00 is a real good barometer
"There does seem to be a theme of "defying Mark in order to train harder" common to most of the injured over the past decade."
-you may have hit upon something there.
Yeah, you would think that after Colorado had the only three American born Cross Country National Champions since Kennedy and multiple team championships employing rosters primarily from Colorado that Boulder would be getting a little more respect. BTW all you CU / Wetmore haters, how did that crow taste at the end of last fall?
I think that this is a very interesting point. But what exactly does "defy Mark" mean? I think it's tied into the whole concept of Lydiard training, and I've made this point on the Lydiard/Daniels thread. The WHOLE concept of the aerobic build up phase in Lydiard, best as I can figure, is to "push the envelope". I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a lot of autonomy in Lydiard based training, and the athlete is left to their own devices in finding that aerobic/anaerobic red-line. When working with an athlete Lydiard was the key ingredient, he seemed capable of cueing the athlete into understanding what the proper intensity was for the day. But take the Lydiard system and apply it to a college team, where a bunch of highly motivated guys want to be All-American (or top seven, or make the team, etc) and it's easy to pass that red-line on a consistent, daily basis. I lived it in college, running for a team where you had to PRESS every day just to survive (and you know how all of us distance guys are ... if you back off you're just a pussy). And then .... you try to race in peak form at least twice a year, if not twice with a mini-peak in Feb/Mar. Which is SO NOT LYDIARD! So injuries/overtraining/exhaustion is bound to occur. I think the flaw lies in (1) using Lydiard in a collegiate based program OR (2) how Wetmore explains the required effort of the day to the people he coaches.
Personally, I think that Lydiard does not serve the scholastic/collegiate system well. This is not Wetmore bashing ... I completely respect that program, who can't? Great results at the right time of year almost every year, but at what expense? And those involved at Colorado have to admit .... they also lead the nation in injuries.
Colorado 175 votes
Adams State 68 votes
Western 10 votes
This is the current score on the chasingtradition.com poll that is asking the same question - Who will win the shootout? Western is getting absolutely no respect - possibly because chasingtradition spent a week at Colorado and Adams State and not that many people follow Western.
Matt Taylor was very high on Adams State at the end of the week. But as you would expect, Colorado also looked very fit.
"on paper this is going to be an amazing meet. you have 3 teams that could take the title, but of course colorado is the favorite. according to their website, they have never been defeated at the shootout."
I do believe Western "won" it in 2002 but since they don't score D2 with D1 it didn't count.
NikeXC wrote:
Western State and Adams regularly go to the Shootout, if my memory serves me.
No, Adams usually pusses out. I think this is the first year in a long time that Adams is there.
Didn't Ryan Deak go out to run for CU? If he did, is he still there? Haven't heard anything about him in some time. It seemed he would be a good one a few years back.
Bad memory wrote:
NikeXC wrote:Western State and Adams regularly go to the Shootout, if my memory serves me.
No, Adams usually pusses out. I think this is the first year in a long time that Adams is there.
You're young or not very bright or both. Although Adams has missed a few meets in Boulder, they've historically run the CU cross country meet for decades, including many years under Coach Martin. It would be interesting to see over the last 30 years which school has competed most often in Boulder. I bet Adams would be near the top.
Adams will edge out CU, and WS will be a distant 3rd place.
survival of the fittest wrote:
Colorado 175 votes
Adams State 68 votes
Western 10 votes
This is the current score on the chasingtradition.com poll that is asking the same question - Who will win the shootout? Western is getting absolutely no respect - possibly because chasingtradition spent a week at Colorado and Adams State and not that many people follow Western.
Matt Taylor was very high on Adams State at the end of the week. But as you would expect, Colorado also looked very fit.
I bet the votes have more to do with CU being CU and Adams having defeated Western earlier this year and less to do with Taylor's week in Alamosa. With that said, I'm sure the Adams guys expect a very tough meet against Western, a meet that could go either way. It'll be interesting to say the least.
Retire Buff - I wonder if CU's high profile makes a lot of people think they are more injury-prone that most top level schools. It's hard to argue with their successes from my point of view.
Someone mentioned that CU has never lost a Shootout. I'm getting older, but I think that's fuzzy math. Maybe they haven't lost a Shootout on the current course, but I remember Adams beating CU when CU hosted the Shootout in Denver and Adams beating CU out at some golf course, but that wasn't a "Shootout." Maybe they've never lost a Shootout under Wetmore, as both of my examples were a long time ago!
Bad memory - calling out the Adams' program and not posting your name - who's the puss?!
Former Adams,
You make a great point about the role that media over-saturation plays in making people hyper-sensitive to CU's injuries. The claim that "CU leads the Nation in Injuries" can't be substantiated because the other top 10 D-1 schools aren't under as many microscopes as CU is on a weekly basis.
Read RWTB and it becomes pretty clear why CU athletes get injured or used to quite often. Wetmore even talks at the end about thinking things over and changing the density of training a bit. A lot of times though you could blame the athletes not really running easy on an easy day but waiting until they really hurt to take it easy. I think when you have a program like CU that strives for the top and you have competitive athletes all wanting to make the top 7 you get a lot of "racing in practice" that can cause these injuries.
Alan
could someone post the top times on the cu course?
thanks