500,000 Americans Have Died of COVID

Evidence is evidence wrote:

Harambe wrote:

All I am asking for is one link to a piece of data that suggests the excess deaths are not real

All anyone is asking for is any solid evidence that excess deaths are factual. I still have not seen any. Most have not. Sounds like you have something. Politically motivated/biased data is not evidence.

How do you determine whether data is politically motivated/biased or not? Harambe generally presents data that is and has been used and accepted by the general scientific community. There are long-standing standards for scientific journal articles which continue to be observed. It appears that you now find those unacceptable and politically motivated. What would you use instead?

At this point, one could very easily come to the conclusion that you have determined that any evidence that does not support the position you want to be true must be politically motivated or biased.

In short, if you declare existing standards unacceptable, then the very least you can do is define what is acceptable. Certainly until then we have to use the existing standards, and by those standards Harambe has plenty of evidence.

the trump virus killed a lot more than the zero cases that trump promised

Harambe wrote:

Evidence is evidence wrote:

Yeah, definitely, to recap.

Horsesh*t posing as evidence provided by believer morons: plethora

Actual evidence provided by said believer morons: 0

What would you accept as evidence, then?

You seem angry because people keep proving you wrong. How long before we get the philosophizing, "well, we can't really ever KNOW anything, so I don't believe COVID stats."

I would accept evidence. EVIDENCE. Not smoke and mirrors. EVIDENCE.

What do you mean people prove me wrong? I have been right all my life. Which is why I am rather successful. WTF are you?

Evidence is evidence wrote:

I would accept evidence. EVIDENCE. Not smoke and mirrors. EVIDENCE.

What do you mean people prove me wrong? I have been right all my life. Which is why I am rather successful. WTF are you?

CDC data gathered under Trump isn't acceptable?

As for me, I'm smarter than you and just a gorilla. Oof

Common Cents wrote:

What is it going to take for Americans to acknowledge that we need a European style lockdown here? 500,000 Americans are now dead due to the irresponsible actions of many. We need to do something immediately before it’s too late!!

Not true.

Nearly 500,000 Americans have died with Covid.

The vast majority would have died by now anyway

Das Unkle wrote:

Common Cents wrote:

What is it going to take for Americans to acknowledge that we need a European style lockdown here? 500,000 Americans are now dead due to the irresponsible actions of many. We need to do something immediately before it’s too late!!

Not true.

Nearly 500,000 Americans have died with Covid.

The vast majority would have died by now anyway

Excess deaths prove this wrong, as they have 100000 times on this board. You have the same 3 arguments since June and they're all hilariously wrong.

Evidence is evidence wrote:

Harambe wrote:

What would you accept as evidence, then?

You seem angry because people keep proving you wrong. How long before we get the philosophizing, "well, we can't really ever KNOW anything, so I don't believe COVID stats."

I would accept evidence. EVIDENCE. Not smoke and mirrors. EVIDENCE.

What do you mean people prove me wrong? I have been right all my life. Which is why I am rather successful. WTF are you?

Saying that you have been right all your certainly supports the proposition that you cannot accept evidence that proves you are wrong.

Unless and until you provide standards for evidence, that will be my understanding. If that does occur, then we can have a discussion.

Personally, I like to make predictions along with standards for evaluating those predictions. Being wrong sometimes is part of the game. I am actually reassured to a certain extent on the occasions when evidence proves my predictions wrong. That means I am not working within circular logic. It also provides a means for me to learn and grow.

And as in most aspects of life, if you never fail, you haven’t been ambitious enough.

Harambe wrote:

Das Unkle wrote:

Not true.

Nearly 500,000 Americans have died with Covid.

The vast majority would have died by now anyway

Excess deaths prove this wrong, as they have 100000 times on this board. You have the same 3 arguments since June and they're all hilariously wrong.

Median age of over 80 years, 94% with at least one other deadly health condition, 40% in nursing homes where 63% or the residents don't last a year.

Apply a little common sense. The vast majority of these folks were gone by now absent Covid.

I think it was on another thread where I showed the excess deaths numbers being reported made no sense

Das Unkle wrote:

Median age of over 80 years, 94% with at least one other deadly health condition, 40% in nursing homes where 63% or the residents don't last a year.

Apply a little common sense. The vast majority of these folks were gone by now absent Covid.

I think it was on another thread where I showed the excess deaths numbers being reported made no sense

Diabetes, for example, is not a deadly condition. The 6% meme just shows you have no interested in truth. Just pursuing dogma. How about that election fraud? You seem to have shut up about that at least lol

Well, diabetes is pretty bad in the long run, but hypertension and obesity also qualify. More than half of American adults qualify as having at least one of these “deadly” conditions. so it seems like what DU is saying is “94% of deaths come from the 60% of American adults to which I do not belong, therefore it is unimportant”

The Covid mortality profile looks pretty similar to that of heart attacks, cancer, strokes, and other infectious. I think we should take all of these things very seriously.

Harambe and others citing actual evidence is support of the severity of this very real pandemic, please understand that a lot of the population has been negatively impacted by the pandemic in general and by measures taken to curb it. They are acting and posting out of a self-interest in getting as many people to deny the evidence, deny the public health measures being implemented to counteract it, and to simply return to a pre-Covid way of life. They are doing this because anything else impacts their interests.

Don't expect them to agree with evidence or reason.

Their purpose is to undermine public trust in the pandemic prevalence and the response implemented to fight it. They will say anything to create confusion, which works to their benefit, unfortunately.

That is what you are seeing here. And LRC allows it, for what that is worth, though curtailing it would be a very formidable task, if not impossible.

Unkle - please continue to cherry-pick percentages and facts to "back up" your personal assertions - it's really compelling stuff! Meanwhile the actual data shows otherwise and while you reference a smoking gun on excess deaths, it's oddly not present(?).

The notion that it's all fine, acceptable and normal because "they'd die anyways" always falls flat when you have a steady stream of personal accounts of people stating how they were on their death beds and are happy to be alive. You don't see ANY coverage or statements from people being happy to die early because they got the disease or wanting fate to intervene faster than they expected. I mean - even a low-IQ clown like yourself can't find links to repost and show that these people are happy to die early, to prove your own point.

And what element of humanity or even the fragile state of our current society leads you to feel good about apathetically accepting the premature deaths of anyone, let alone thousands or hundreds of thousands?

Evidence, while we all realize you are trolling to salve your own insecurities and feed your schadenfreude and hatred of the other, the burden of proof has been and continues to be on you.

Even if everyone who is ill seeks care (I thought some people didn't due to the costs - do they treat everyone and then bill them later?) the USA has done remarkably well if hospitals have enough capacity to treat everyone. In the UK the reason we tried to "flatten the curve" was to try to ensure that not too many people were seriously ill at the same time. If hosp

I didn't necessarily think obesity was the main factor. But if the USA has worse obesity than other countries, are they better in terms of some other factor?

The UK has dealt with denialism, but on a much smaller scale. I don't think there are any politicians who are denialists. They were about 30 MPs who opposed some of the government restrictions. That's nothing like the USA where denialism was the prevailing view in the Republican party.

The high rates in states like South Dakota and Mississippi are what I expected. Lots of Republicans who carry on as normal and lots of poor people who have to carry on as normal. I'm just surprised the average rate is lower.

On the contrary, the burden of proof is on you you ridiculous religious nutter fantasy sh*t believing dooche. You have nothing to give besides some fake data and virtue signaling. Get out of here.

Star wrote:

Hate to say it, but it was a bigger deal when the number hit 3,000.

Now every new hundred thousand dead is just noise.

I think this thread has proven my point.

People either aren't worked up about or aren't believing this 500,000 number.

Lol. Standard of evidence?? How about at least a basic police forensic investigation level evidence? Have we as a public gone through anything remotely resembling at least that??

Jeezus, with this much impact on the public there should be a complete investigation of every governing body, every scientific claim, every mandate, every person responsible for influencing lockdowns, everything. But no, nothing has been investigated. What the hell are your standards for evidence? CDC write-ups? Johns Hopkins? CNN reports? AP? Biden speeches? If you think so then you have no clue about anything and should absolutely not speak of the matter.

Evidence is evidence wrote:

On the contrary, the burden of proof is on you you ridiculous religious nutter fantasy sh*t believing dooche. You have nothing to give besides some fake data and virtue signaling. Get out of here.

Heyyyyyy pal! Virtue signalling? Ha, not so much. "Religious nutter fantasy?" Explain, please - I'm having trouble unpacking that because it seems like you got ur buttons pushed.

But no, the burden of proof currently still rests with you - if you don't like that, go back to your online echo chambers where you feel safe and acknowledged. Evidence and data from my side has readily and visibly been presented. With that, I'm calling a spade a spade (once again - not virtue signalling), based on evidence that has transpired in these threads and lack of supporting data/rebuttal from you and your kind.

The overwhelming majority of available data, peer-reviewed science and global thought leadership back my position. What backs yours? You keep asking questions without anything to support your position. It seems like you're really just intent on trolling an anonymous message board, attempting to make people you dislike, envy or hold in contempt upset.

Evidence is evidence wrote:

Lol. Standard of evidence?? How about at least a basic police forensic investigation level evidence? Have we as a public gone through anything remotely resembling at least that??

Jeezus, with this much impact on the public there should be a complete investigation of every governing body, every scientific claim, every mandate, every person responsible for influencing lockdowns, everything. But no, nothing has been investigated. What the hell are your standards for evidence? CDC write-ups? Johns Hopkins? CNN reports? AP? Biden speeches? If you think so then you have no clue about anything and should absolutely not speak of the matter.

Surely if there were a mass conspiracy there would be some evidence... we will wait!!

I don't think it's that surprising that when cases and deaths spike in a region, most people take precautions seriously.

I am not quite sure what your thesis is. There are a ton of variables between the countries but both have had huge COVID outbreaks that strained healthcare systems and put them among the worst in the world in deaths.

Plenty of denialism in the UK:

-- at least similar in magnitude to the USA. it's not like it's 10 times less or something.

Here's an interesting correlation:

The UK severely mishandled COVID, especially in the spring. They dragged their feet on strong mitigations and almost pulled the trigger on pursuing immunity thru infection. I don't see the value in comparing the USA to them. Two countries that both failed end up with bad COVID numbers.