FACT: Electric vehicles will NOT replace gasoline engine vehicles anytime soon

Ever seen an electric combine harvester? Or a solar powered one?

If you like to eat, erm, I mean, if you deign to allow the little people to eat, we will not be abandoning the internal combustion engine anytime soon.

I think Industries like agriculture will convert over very quickly actually. Not nearly the same constraints you seem on consumer cars.

pinesol wrote:

Ever seen an electric combine harvester? Or a solar powered one?

If you like to eat, erm, I mean, if you deign to allow the little people to eat, we will not be abandoning the internal combustion engine anytime soon.

The takes about "electricity having to come from somewhere" are hilarious.

It's much easier to "greenify" centralized sources of energy production! Maybe even carbon capture? Not to mention efficiencies of scale with power plants.

2600 bro wrote:

The takes about "electricity having to come from somewhere" are hilarious.

It's much easier to "greenify" centralized sources of energy production! Maybe even carbon capture? Not to mention efficiencies of scale with power plants.

Efficiency of scale with power plants?

I guess you don't know that at least 30% of the power plants power is lost on the way to the consumer.

Henry Ford II wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

The takes about "electricity having to come from somewhere" are hilarious.

It's much easier to "greenify" centralized sources of energy production! Maybe even carbon capture? Not to mention efficiencies of scale with power plants.

Efficiency of scale with power plants?

I guess you don't know that at least 30% of the power plants power is lost on the way to the consumer.

Your point isn't in conflict with 2600s. Just has to be a large enough gain in economy of scale.

steve the addict wrote:

Electric vehicles have been around for decades. They still haven't taken off. Non electric cars keep improving and dominating.

The improvement in both clean energy production (not in the scope of this thread) and energy storage has been startling in the last 10-20 years!

People need to retire old talking points about batteries and electricity demand.

75% of new electricity installed in the USA was renewable in 2020.

Fossil fuels are on their way out. They were a necessary evil.

What's a 'car repair store'? Is that like Pepboys or O'reilly's or Vatozone? Those will continue whether EVs become dominant or not.

Harambe wrote:

The improvement in both clean energy production (not in the scope of this thread) and energy storage has been startling in the last 10-20 years!

People need to retire old talking points about batteries and electricity demand.

75% of new electricity installed in the USA was renewable in 2020.

Fossil fuels are on their way out. They were a necessary evil.

But where you get all that Lithium from?

And who is getting it out of the ground?

I won't be surprised if EVs are the cheaper and more popular option for new car buyers within 20 years. But that still leaves a lot existing ICE autos on the road. The average age of motor vehicles is close to 12 years!

Harambe wrote:

People need to retire old talking points about batteries and electricity demand.

75% of new electricity installed in the USA was renewable in 2020.

`

Thanks for volunteering, moran. I can't stand you so I'm gonna be particularly savage.

Like I said already, PROVE that EV's are overall carbon neutral or negative. No shifting burden. You want to feel good, be a hero, have something to pose on the internet about for endorphin kicks, don't talk about other people's "talking points," be serious and fully account for all the emissions the industry produces, and all its environmental effects. Pretty words like "renewable' don't count.

Try, or STFU.

Hahahaha your most aggressive posts are always your stupidest. 1) Who ever said they were carbon neutral or negative? They just have to significantly better than ICE cars. 2) You are even more hilarious because it takes 5 minutes of research to determine that battery manufacturing + electricity fuel sources still put EVs at less CO2/mile than ICE cars. In places where most energy is renewable (Norway, France) the average CO2/mile for EVs is ~1/3rd that of ICE vehicles. Yes these data include manufacturing costs. EVs are already better than gas cars and they improving at a very rapid rate. The improvements in battery manufacturing, battery density, and batter recycling will render your talking points even more stupid. Get ready! Source: https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf Source with fewer big words: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51977625 But really there are 5-6 papers and news articles that are the first hits on google that confirm this.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Harambe wrote:

People need to retire old talking points about batteries and electricity demand.

75% of new electricity installed in the USA was renewable in 2020.

`

Thanks for volunteering, moran. I can't stand you so I'm gonna be particularly savage.

Like I said already, PROVE that EV's are overall carbon neutral or negative. No shifting burden. You want to feel good, be a hero, have something to pose on the internet about for endorphin kicks, don't talk about other people's "talking points," be serious and fully account for all the emissions the industry produces, and all its environmental effects. Pretty words like "renewable' don't count.

Try, or STFU.

Obviously renewable energy in batteries is way less polluting them fossil fuels

In the production of anything there's always going to be industry that's built around fossil fuel oh, so with any production there's always going to be waste you can talk about

Challenges to get everybody on the same page and to move to more and more renewable energy and renewable resources

There is potential battery chemistry is that don't need lithium or any harmful chemicals

Yeah but anyone that argues that the idea of renewable energy and Battery Technology isn't a better idea then fuels is simply a grumpy old fella

In some places renewables are now cheaper per kWh than coal/oil/gas - so we won't even have to get everyone on the same page, the invisible hand will. Agreed, the advances in battery tech could be game changing very soon.

MidFootStriker wrote:

Obviously renewable energy in batteries is way less polluting them fossil fuels

In the production of anything there's always going to be industry that's built around fossil fuel oh, so with any production there's always going to be waste you can talk about

Challenges to get everybody on the same page and to move to more and more renewable energy and renewable resources

There is potential battery chemistry is that don't need lithium or any harmful chemicals

Yeah but anyone that argues that the idea of renewable energy and Battery Technology isn't a better idea then fuels is simply a grumpy old fella

There is a 0% chance Wigins responds to this thread now. He has learned to disappear when he gets destroyed from multiple sides.

Maybe the thread will even get deleted!

elvid32 wrote:

steve the addict wrote:

Electric vehicles have been around for decades. They still haven't taken off. Non electric cars keep improving and dominating.

Development of newly designed internal combustion engines has been halted by many automakers. They will continue to produce their current engines for years, but they have recently stopped development. What does this tell you?

It tells me they've perfected them, so what's the point in further development.

It also tells me they'll keep producing them for at least the next hundred years, maybe longer.

Sorry about that.

When your argument is "they've been perfected," we can only laugh.

Sorry. wrote:

elvid32 wrote:

Development of newly designed internal combustion engines has been halted by many automakers. They will continue to produce their current engines for years, but they have recently stopped development. What does this tell you?

It tells me they've perfected them, so what's the point in further development.

It also tells me they'll keep producing them for at least the next hundred years, maybe longer.

Sorry about that.

I'll bite. It'll be interesting to bump this thread in 5 years because things are going to significantly take off in the next few years for EVs.

Here are some of the reasons EVs are going to completely take over during the next decade:

1. Battery price per KWH has been decreasing at a linear rate for 10+ years. We are 1-2 years out from price parity between an ICE and an EV solely based on the cost of the battery + powertrain. This means that in 2023, GM & Tesla will be able to release a $25k economy car that has a range of 300mi. The top end models will soon be hitting 600/700 miles for the range. How would you like to NEVER think about fueling your vehicle?

2. Every automaker is accelerating their EV plans every few months. GM plans 30 new EV models by 2025. VW plans 70 by 2030. Nissan, Hyundai, Ford, etc all have similar plans. They all know what is happening and feel a need to keep up. You won't be able to buy a new ICE in 6-7 years simply because these companies will be making more money on EVs.

3. Fleets are already transitioning to EVs because it makes tremendous economic sense. Low maintenance and long lifespan means everything to fleets. We are already seeing large fleet purchases of EVs (e.g. Amazon bought 100k electric vans to replace their delivery fleet)

4. Range anxiety is going away. With the decrease in price mentioned in #1, even the lowest end models will have >200mi range by 2025. The average range will be 300-400mi, which is the same as gas cars. Even the skeptics will realize the advantages of charging at home (or work).

5. Public charging infrastructure is going up very fast. They seem to pop up everywhere. Not that this matters much - what many don't realize is that the majority of charging happens at your home/apartment.

6. Government incentives are going to continue to be around. I don't care about the environment and do not believe in the liberal fearmongering. But many in the government do, and they will waste lots of taxpayers money speeding this up.

Investors are realizing this and thus the crazy amounts of money flowing into EV companies. The demand for EVs is already there, and the supply is racing to catch up.

My opinion: all new cars will be electric by 2027/2028. The decrease in new ICE vehicles will hurt gas stations and many will go bankrupt. This will make it harder for existing ICE car owners to fuel up, and so increase the reasons to buy an EV.

Another factor is the advent of autonomous technology. It's much easier to have an autonomous electric vehicle than ICE, for numerous reasons. As autonomous vehicles pick up steam, you will have to buy an EV to get the benefits.

I have a Tesla. It is an amazing commuter car. I have solar so never pay gas or oil changes. Im sure people said the same of cell phones but you plug it in at home and have a full charge in the morning.

That said I do agree has cars are here for the foreseeable future. We also have an SUV we take for road trips. I’m not interested in sitting 45 min with kids to charge.

I do think electric cars will take over the commuter market. Imagine if there was a Honda Civic electric at the same price. It would kill everything.

2600 bro wrote:

When your argument is "they've been perfected," we can only laugh.

Sorry. wrote:

It tells me they've perfected them, so what's the point in further development.

It also tells me they'll keep producing them for at least the next hundred years, maybe longer.

Sorry about that.

"we can only laugh"

Good, you were meant too.

But "they'll keep producing them for at least the next hundred years, maybe longer" is no joke, I am unanimous in that.