Alright.....women's NCAA sports ruined of Biden's first day. Transgenders are same at federal $$ institutions.

It's coming from the well-pickled brain of Kevin Beck. He assumes many are willing to behave as indecently as he does.

think about the throws and how a male could totally crush it in the women's shot.

I looked up the boys/girls shot

10th all time boys shot was 62.9, the best girl ever was 53.25, and with a lighter weight shot.

You're applying way too much logic to a guy who got his political career started by supporting racial segregation.

YersiniaPestis wrote:

think about the throws and how a male could totally crush it in the women's shot.

I looked up the boys/girls shot

10th all time boys shot was 62.9, the best girl ever was 53.25, and with a lighter weight shot.

We had this same discussion last year. Go look up how the 3:50/14:30 guy did at crushing the woman's records. I expect your shot putter would do even worse.

Biden, or anyone else with any type of influence, do not want to end women's sports. The interpretations of Biden's EO that have been made by some posters, are ludicrous.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Paradoxical wrote:

You're applying way too much logic to a guy who got his political career started by supporting racial segregation.

Biden, or anyone else with any type of influence, do not want to end women's sports. The interpretations of Biden's EO that have been made by some posters, are ludicrous.

His EO doesn't explicitly end female sports, but allowing biological men to compete in female sports ends female sports BY DEFINITION, which is what his EO does. Is this really that complicated?

Paradoxical wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Biden, or anyone else with any type of influence, do not want to end women's sports. The interpretations of Biden's EO that have been made by some posters, are ludicrous.

His EO doesn't explicitly end female sports, but allowing biological men to compete in female sports ends female sports BY DEFINITION, which is what his EO does. Is this really that complicated?

They're already allowed to compete in women's sport, subject to certain rules. His EO does not change anything. If he had said that biological men cannot compete in women's sports, it still wouldn't have changed anything.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If I'm a race directer, I'm not handing out checks to mediocre male runners claiming to be women and no court is going to force me to do so. If they did, I would cancel the race.

You're probably not a race director. But this makes sense to me.

[quote]SDSU Aztec wrote:

What makes you think it's the go-ahead for a wave of males to invade women's road racing?

I don't. And if you thought my idea was serious, I was only piggy-backing on rojo's idea for 4:25 high-school boys to start applying en masse for women's college scholarships, which would presumably establish the very point you're making -- there's no way it would fly.

The thing is, on the scale that's been observed in the real world so far, and given the push from some quarters, there is no legal basis for turning down a natal male if natal males who choose to start identifying as females, with no hormones or anything, can run on high-school teams. I agree that my and rojo's scenarios are absurdities, but so are some of the things that have actually happened so far, many of them detailed in this thread.

I don't know if you saw this part in my other post, but overall I see this in sort of the opposite terms as the original poster. I am not a lawyer, but the EO doesn't really seem to establish anything concrete. It looks like it was meant if anything to mollify or reassure people who almost surely voted for Biden that he's listening, whether he is or not.

You're probably not a race director. But this makes sense to me.

If I'm a race director, the rules for HS transgender female athletes are irrelevant. Its not a HS race.

YersiniaPestis wrote:

think about the throws and how a male could totally crush it in the women's shot.

I looked up the boys/girls shot

10th all time boys shot was 62.9, the best girl ever was 53.25, and with a lighter weight shot.

I agree with your assessment regarding the weight throws but that's not going to justify an across the board ban for all sports. There are many sports where a biological man that is complying with the rules will still have a significant advantage. If it becomes a problem, maybe some sports could be carved out to not allow transgender athletes.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Paradoxical wrote:

His EO doesn't explicitly end female sports, but allowing biological men to compete in female sports ends female sports BY DEFINITION, which is what his EO does. Is this really that complicated?

They're already allowed to compete in women's sport, subject to certain rules. His EO does not change anything. If he had said that biological men cannot compete in women's sports, it still wouldn't have changed anything.

You're right about the NCAA, but you're missing context here. What Biden did was undo Trump's executive order which effectively banned transgender women from competing in biological female sports, with the threat of withdrawn funding of public schools for noncompliance.

Paradoxical wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

They're already allowed to compete in women's sport, subject to certain rules. His EO does not change anything. If he had said that biological men cannot compete in women's sports, it still wouldn't have changed anything.

You're right about the NCAA, but you're missing context here. What Biden did was undo Trump's executive order which effectively banned transgender women from competing in biological female sports, with the threat of withdrawn funding of public schools for noncompliance.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/trump-administration-backs-idaho-transgender-sports-ban

Biden or Trump, these issues will be settled in court and judges will not give a crap what the president thinks.

Yes, let's hear from an arbiter of "decency": 

My post was intentionally farcical; your stuff, not so much. And there's, oh, a 100 percent chance you've perpetrated similarly slimy acts in the years since, with an equal and perverse absence of remorse that borders on pride.

Those most eager to label this board a swamp tend to be long-timers who contribute nothing more than occasional snark or quasi-anonymous flaming-trolling, periodically pointing out that they're aware of the irony and are just playing their (totally optional!) role in the Letsrun drama. But because they've been cruising running boards for 20+ years, they also invariably reveal from time to time why they really have a problem with gross imperfection.

Probably everysport, generalizing the above to "a man performing in the nth percentile of his sport will be superior to a woman in the nth percentile of that sport."

Something to consider, though: My above scenario was parodically over-the-top, and you as a race director could easily get away with not acknowledging a group of "obvious men" as the women's winners. But if you were to disqualify only one such person because you were absolutely sure in your heart she was a man clowning around, you could wind up getting sued anyway.

As you say, this will all be settled in the courts, but it's far from settled now. When lawyers for the ACLU are making fantastical claims like this one, it shows you how weird things have become:

Remember, that's not some rando, it's the considered opinion of an ACLU attorney.

I don't think this will become a serious issue in road racing the way it has at the scholastic level, but I've been wrong about almost everything else I thought five years ago on this topic.

Sorry if this has been posted already:

[As an aside, I was thinking one could make a weak but meaningful argument that Cathy Schiro was the best overall male or female high-school distance runner in her home state of NH in 1984. In addition to her winning Kinney/FL Nationals, her time on the state championship course would have put her around 10th in the NH D1 boys' race, she ran a still-standing 16:46 CR at VCP,  and she also ran a 2:34:21 marathon that spring.]

This whole thread is a waste of time and just oozes negative energy. I wish you guys got to hear sprinter Serenity Douglas of Texas and her conversation with D2 trans athlete CeCe Telfar. If you had alot if the stuff you guys are saying would be left in the drafts or thrown out of your mind. Because its science that goes with that switch otherwise athletes would have done it in the name of stealing championships.