Over 1 out of every 800 Americans have died of COVID

"vast majority" is saying pretty much all of them without evidence of course

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

Your numbers are meaningless without a source.

Sigh, I've given you this before and you NEVER provide sources for your random theories but sure. Here we go again:

Sum this column for the whole USA: COVID-19 (U071, Multiple Cause of Death)

This is when COVID is on a death certificate at all, as far as I can tell. I get 345160

Then sum this column for the whole USA: COVID-19 (U071, Underlying Cause of Death)

This is when COVID is listed as the underlying cause. I get 315909

Divide those 2 and I get 91.5% of death certs. with COVID have COVID has underlying cause.

Note data is incomplete, especially in recent weeks.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

You also claimed respiratory deaths...you said they are all respiratory deaths. Show that data or you are just full of it and fearmongering and contributing to the problem and death count.

COVID-19 is a respiratory virus. If 91.5% of COVID deaths are listed as the underlying cause, well...

But thanks for making me pull the latest data. I was going to assume the number would drop as we test more people and end up (maybe) with more death certificates with COVID but not as the underlying cause.

But no! Proves that COVID is still the thing killed these people by a vast majority (is that allowed? A 92:8 ratio is vast enough? lol)

Harambe wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

You also claimed respiratory deaths...you said they are all respiratory deaths. Show that data or you are just full of it and fearmongering and contributing to the problem and death count.

COVID-19 is a respiratory virus. If 91.5% of COVID deaths are listed as the underlying cause, well...

But thanks for making me pull the latest data. I was going to assume the number would drop as we test more people and end up (maybe) with more death certificates with COVID but not as the underlying cause.

But no! Proves that COVID is still the thing killed these people by a vast majority (is that allowed? A 92:8 ratio is vast enough? lol)

This is an assumption on your part. Most of what you say is merely an extrapolation of your own assumptions. Where is the data on respiratory deaths? Again, you are still assuming that because it is listed as the underlying cause it is the cause of death despite positive tests often leading to this declaration no matter how the person died. What about all of the fear mongering all year about how covid is killing people via stroke, heart attacks, liver and kidney failure, etc? Again, you pick a data value and then make assumptions about it and use your assumptions to prove your point. It is a common troll tactic or one of a very simple minded person. Sorry, still not very convincing nor a justification for your year long effort in deadly fear-mongering.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

What about all of the fear mongering all year about how covid is killing people via stroke, heart attacks, liver and kidney failure, etc?

This is a good point!

Cardiovascular is a better way to describe it. Lots of clotting events and heart attacks seen as well.

Again -- you have no evidence that positive tests lead to an incorrect assignment of COVID as the underlying cause of death. The CDC specifically cautions against this (as I've posted many times). T

You could argue that reporting "COVID deaths" as any death certificate with COVID on it is disingenuous -- you should only report ones where it is the underlying cause of death. (I disagree, but for the sake of conversation). As I've shown, that wouldn't change much as 91.5% of COVID deaths have COVID as the underlying cause.

This is the central question: do you think that there is a significant number of death certificates where doctors have incorrectly listed COVID has the underlying cause when it is not? That is the route you must go down if you want to challenge the death counts.

Yes, see, know you are lumping all of these other causes in there because the positive test was there. You have no evidence that the 400,000 number is almost entirely respiratory deaths as you claim. You are assuming things and that is the problem. You also can't seem to acknowledge that in the case of many of these deaths the cause is uncertain, but a positive test or even just suspicion leads hospitals and providing to have to list it as a covid death because if they don't and they are wrong then the liability consequences is huge. It requires no dishonesty or conspiracy among doctors...they are taking uncertain scenarios and playing it safe legally; there is no consequence for listing a heart attack with a covid positive test as a covid death so why would they take the chance on being wrong, particularly when the money received by doing so is greater. In 2020 we have basically assigned a whole array of causes of death to a severe common cold, which is what corona viruses are and used the numbers to scare people to death and poverty in the process.

So does this attribution inaccuracy extend all assigned causes of death? ever? If "the cause is uncertain" for many of these deaths (source?) because doctors are bad at determining cause of death (source?)/ Then surely that extends to how we could heart attack, stroke, cancer, liver failure, etc. for the past 100 years! If your take it is "all data is inaccurate" to the point where we can't trust anything... unsure what would ever convince you.

Furthermore why are there more excess deaths in places with higher COVID positivity rates, irrespective of "lockdown" measures. What is mysteriously killing more people in places with high COVID rates ... if not COVID? You are making extraordinary claims without even coming close to the extraordinary evidence required to support such claims.

Doctors can easily list COVID as an additional cause of death but not the underlying cause, if they believe it wasn't. There's no incentive, as far as I know, to list COVID as the underlying cause when it is not. Nor is there a liability for leaving COVID off (this is weird, do you have any evidence for this?) (Nor is there any incentive to list COVID at all, despite the conspiracy theory, but I digress).

But anyway, lets assume doctors are making mistakes by the thousands (or "playing it safe" or whatever). Why are COVID deaths and excess deaths so strongly correlated with COVID outbreaks? Whenever COVID spreads in a region, more people die than normal and those excess deaths are coded as COVID.

Do you really think COVID isn't the most likely explanation for what is killing these people? You have no data to suggest that deaths are being systematically miscoded. Please provide some.

P.S. Look at the "comorbidities" section here:

You'll see the most common conditions are respiratory and cardiovascular. All of this + the underlying cause % of COVID deaths strongly supports the true danger of COVID.

400k excess deaths = severe common cold? Care to defend that?

still waiting for Facts Matter to chime in...what an idiot he was.

My nephew has it. He is 30 and is in a bad way. He is white and rich.

Coronavirus can be the common cold or it can be far far worse, just like the flu can kill 12000 in the U S or it can be the Spanish flu.

You cannot determines viruses lethality by its family

trashcan wrote:

Coronavirus can be the common cold or it can be far far worse, just like the flu can kill 12000 in the U S or it can be the Spanish flu.

You cannot determines viruses lethality by its family

True, but now that we have vaccines we should be treating this just like we do a bad flu? Correct? Why would we do things different?

+2. The real public health crisis is obesity and any number of related metabolic and cardiovascular disorders. 70% of the USA population is 'overweight' with 40 plus percent of that being obese. Starts at the day care level and keeps on keeping on. Look at the main road in your urban area, how many fast food places? Grocer shelves with sugar laden drinks, snacks, etc. Cardiovascular related disease and deaths will continue to be far greater than COVID. Thank your politicians and msm sources for blowing this up greater than needed to justify their political agenda. If the idiots at the helm really wanted to make changes and prevent a real pandemic, they'd start with assessing the crap they allow to be sold. Oh wait, this would hurt the lobbyists....

Or is this a repackaged / rebranded flu vaccine????

Kvothe wrote:

Covid-19 pandemic is bad, but worst in the history of the world? Not by a long shot. The small pox pandemic brought to the Americas by European colonizers devastated empires. It's estimated the Incans lost up to 90 percent of their population to it including their Emperor and his heir presumptive, leading to their fall. Same thing with the Aztecs. Historians estimate 90 to 95 percent of the Americas were felled by small pox. That's probably the worst. Then you have things like the black plague which killed 40-60 percent of Europe.

For Thanksgiving last year the colonisers infected themselves ! Great way to celebrate.

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

trashcan wrote:

Coronavirus can be the common cold or it can be far far worse, just like the flu can kill 12000 in the U S or it can be the Spanish flu.

You cannot determines viruses lethality by its family

True, but now that we have vaccines we should be treating this just like we do a bad flu? Correct? Why would we do things different?

We should do things differently because it’s killing approximately 3000 people a day. That makes it decidedly distinct from any flu in the past 100 years. Also, we can’t get the vaccine into people in a timely manner

No hospital is going to declare any dead coupled to a covid positive as anything other than a covid death; there is too much of a liability risk in doing anything else. It does not require a conspiracy, just greedy lawyers swarming the hospitals in waiting. Why is this so hard for you to understand? It is very possible the numbers are inflated. Nobody is arguing against covid deaths, just debating the actual number and possibility for misattribution causing unneeded panic and poor management policies that have destroyed lives and livelihoods for over a year now. You do not seem to be able to think outside of any boxes; Honestly, I think this problem is too complex for you to understand.[/quote]

Hospitals and states are incentivized to assign COVID as cause of death. Furthermore the USA Government put into law, no healthcare system can be held liable or sued for admitted patient contacting COVID. Once COVID cases appeared on USA soil, this was the golden ticket to remove Trump and his administration.

shoeless wrote:

+2. The real public health crisis is obesity and any number of related metabolic and cardiovascular disorders. 70% of the USA population is 'overweight' with 40 plus percent of that being obese. Starts at the day care level and keeps on keeping on. Look at the main road in your urban area, how many fast food places? Grocer shelves with sugar laden drinks, snacks, etc. Cardiovascular related disease and deaths will continue to be far greater than COVID. Thank your politicians and msm sources for blowing this up greater than needed to justify their political agenda. If the idiots at the helm really wanted to make changes and prevent a real pandemic, they'd start with assessing the crap they allow to be sold. Oh wait, this would hurt the lobbyists....

Cancer and heart disease kills ~1600 people a day in USA according to here:

COVID is currently the leading cause of death in the USA

trashcan wrote:

Lead Foil Hat wrote:

True, but now that we have vaccines we should be treating this just like we do a bad flu? Correct? Why would we do things different?

We should do things differently because it’s killing approximately 3000 people a day. That makes it decidedly distinct from any flu in the past 100 years. Also, we can’t get the vaccine into people in a timely manner

What should the Biden administration do? So far they’ve done nothing too differently from Trump.