Absolutely. After an initial period of understandable denial, he humbled himself, confessed and made amends. A great story arc all around, the stuff of legend.
Absolutely. After an initial period of understandable denial, he humbled himself, confessed and made amends. A great story arc all around, the stuff of legend.
Normally I would say no. But Lance is different. Lance founded Livestrong, which has raised 500 million bucks for cancer research. And he's given millions of people something money can't buy --- hope. I say Lance is square with society at this point.
No need for a pardon but if he kisses some Trump ass I could see the Medal of Freedom. Trump and Armstrong are basically the same person: narcissistic liars willing to sue and ruin the lives of anyone who tells the truth or not deemed loyal enough.
Let's get to the bottom of this wrote:
the thing about lance wrote:
The truth is that all of his major rivals were juicing. All of them. It was wrong that they were all drugged up and not accepting team members unless they were willing to also.
But the question will always remain. Was it really cheating if they were all doing it?
If everyone cuts the same corner maybe it is sad but it's a level playing field.
Yes...it really was cheating even though almost all the top competitors were doing it. If all the young males in your neighborhood are committing burglaries, it's still a crime.
Btw, when everyone is doping it doesn't create a level playing field - it unlevels it. Athletes respond differently to all the different type of PEDs being used it. And there's dosage; some will go with a higher dose and have a higher risk of getting caught. Some will go with microdosing and never get caught, but won't get the full benefit of a doping problem.
With doping, it never was and never will be a level playing field.
I’m inclined to agree with you however your comparison to criminals does not hold up. When everyone is a criminal and they offend each other it is different than criminals impacting innocent victims.
It might make sense to the other poster of you are saying that it shuts down potential athletes that were unwilling to dope. But then you have to make a case for that.
I have heard of those that were fired from Lance’s team that were unwilling to drug. I feel bad for these guys.
tycobb wrote:
No need for a pardon but if he kisses some Trump ass I could see the Medal of Freedom. Trump and Armstrong are basically the same person: narcissistic liars willing to sue and ruin the lives of anyone who tells the truth or not deemed loyal enough.
Trump and Armstrong both still believe they won. They both have many faithful followers willing to ignore overwhelming ugliness and disrespect in order to support isolated beliefs they agree with. They both craved power and control, and abused those when they had them..
Armstrong's comeback did not go well, and a Trump comeback will similarly be regrettable.
Trump awarding Armstrong the Medal of Freedom might taint the honor and respect for those athletes who truly deserved it, like Gable, Ryan, etc.
TDF wrote:
Does Lance have enough money to hand off to Trump to get a pardon?
I guess Barack Obama must be the wealthiest man on the planet, right? I mean, he granted 1,927 pardons during his time. Trump only has 94. With nearly 2,000 people handing off money to Obama he must make Jeff Bezos look poor.
Lance cheated but he didn't actually commit a crime so he doesn't qualify for a pardon on those grounds. But the main qualification for a pardon is a crime committed on behalf of Trump - and that rules him out there. All that's left is a war crime. I'm not aware he committed any of those.
it doesnt matter.
the cheat said it himself; he has to face his children every day knowing he is the worst cheater and liar in sport's history.
i can look at myself honestly in the mirror. he cant and there is no pardon can remedy that.
even his admission was false.
I don't think he is eligible for a pardon. He was sued in civil court by the government, not criminal court, and the doping ban by USADA and any governing agency is also not eligible for a pardon.
last time I checked Trump wasn't a big fan of a guy who made the post office look good.
Obama didn't give pardons to friends that Obstructed Justice, to protect him. ( Like Trump with Stone and Manafort !!)
He didn’t murder 14 Iraqis. So the bar is pretty low. I’m going with yes.
Lance is the Roger Clemens of cycling. Like Clemens he reached the pinnacle and was the best for several years. Also like Clemens it was revealed that he was cheating during a large potion of that time. Also like Clemens, he became disliked by a large majority by the way he acted. Public opinion is thumbs down to both of them.
Now, if he would have cried, begged for forgiveness, said the right things like :" I just wanted to keep up... I'm so sorry.."
People would have forgiven him. Look at A-Rod. An admitted cheater, who is still making tons of money, and in the national spotlight, and people have forgiven him.
Lance dug his own hole. He had several chances to come clean, but instead attacked and ruined people's lives. Did he look like he was sorry on 60 Minutes? Not really. He still looked like an arrogant POS to me.
And, I would not be going out on a limb saying I am in the majority.
Lance is a d!ck wrote:
but he was a winner wrote:
But he still won so he was a winner you loser
Yes, that was my point.
Furthermore, I'm pretty sure all his competitors still acknowledge him as winner.
Well of course they do. The tour can't event keep riders from using bikes with mini motors in them. They should not worry about peds.
Not only hell no, but hell f-ing no!!!
I am against Presidential/Governor pardons in the first place. It is abused more that it is used for just reasons. Let the legal system handle such matters... not the whim of a politically or personally minded politician. Even if I was in favor of pardons, Lance Armstrong would be 2nd to last on my list, with Trump being absolute last.
How would a pardon for Lance benefit Trump? That is the criteria to get a pardon. I don't recall having ever seen a video of Lance praising Trump or appearing on Fox News spouting Trump talking points. No pardon coming for Lance, even if he were eligible for one which I don't think he is since he didn't commit a federal crime. But to your point, NO, Lance does not deserve a pardon.
If I recall he was never convicted of a crime.
Williams Racing F1 wrote:
Lance is a d!ck wrote:
He still displays his trophies and jerseys. In his mind, he still has his wins.
I bought an Olympic medal on eBay.
People say its cheating but everyone in the Olympics cheats anyway. We all do what we have to.
I display the medal on my wall. In my mind I have the win.
This is the sort of logic and intelligence that makes this message board so much fun.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Lance cheated but he didn't actually commit a crime so he doesn't qualify for a pardon on those grounds. But the main qualification for a pardon is a crime committed on behalf of Trump - and that rules him out there. All that's left is a war crime. I'm not aware he committed any of those.
He committed several crimes (perjury, illegal drug use,...) but I don't think he was convicted of any of them. In theory you can be pardoned for crimes you weren't convicted of. In reality what is the point? Pretty sure he is past the statue of limitations on them and it isn't like a pardon will change is reputation.
the thing about lance wrote:
The truth is that all of his major rivals were juicing. All of them. It was wrong that they were all drugged up and not accepting team members unless they were willing to also.
But the question will always remain. Was it really cheating if they were all doing it?
If everyone cuts the same corner maybe it is sad but it's a level playing field.
Ironic that Armstrong was stripped of all his titles and demonized when everybody knows all cyclists dope and always have, yet in athletics obvious dopers who eventually get caught - such as Kiprop - get to keep their ill gotten gains.