Should Lance Armstrong get a presidential pardon.

No, of course not.

Does Lance have enough money to hand off to Trump to get a pardon?

Was what Lance did a federal crime?

I honestly don't know.

POTUS can only pardon federal crimes.

Doesn't really matter. All the world organizations will still have him on the banned list regardless of what the USA does.

have to ask wrote:

Was what Lance did a federal crime?

I honestly don't know.

POTUS can only pardon federal crimes.

Lance "stole" money from the US tax payer. He should have paid his money back from his Postal years but he didn't.

Neil Armstrong wrote:

have to ask wrote:

Was what Lance did a federal crime?

I honestly don't know.

POTUS can only pardon federal crimes.

Lance "stole" money from the US tax payer. He should have paid his money back from his Postal years but he didn't.

He settled with the US govt and paid back $5 million of the $100 million the US govt sued him for. Since that was settled, I'm not sure there's any crime he could be pardoned for.

Lance has fewer mansions these days and currently has his Aspen home listed for sale at $14.5 million, but he's still a gozillionaire. Not sure if he has enough to buy a pardon, but again, there's nothing to pardon. He's doing just fine.

He needs his wins back! Trump can make the French do that.

Bad Wigins wrote:

He needs his wins back! Trump can make the French do that.

He still displays his trophies and jerseys. In his mind, he still has his wins.

But he still won so he was a winner you loser

but he was a winner wrote:

But he still won so he was a winner you loser

Yes, that was my point.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure all his competitors still acknowledge him as winner.

The truth is that all of his major rivals were juicing. All of them. It was wrong that they were all drugged up and not accepting team members unless they were willing to also.

But the question will always remain. Was it really cheating if they were all doing it?

If everyone cuts the same corner maybe it is sad but it's a level playing field.

the thing about lance wrote:

The truth is that all of his major rivals were juicing. All of them. It was wrong that they were all drugged up and not accepting team members unless they were willing to also.

But the question will always remain. Was it really cheating if they were all doing it?

If everyone cuts the same corner maybe it is sad but it's a level playing field.

Yes...it really was cheating even though almost all the top competitors were doing it. If all the young males in your neighborhood are committing burglaries, it's still a crime.

Btw, when everyone is doping it doesn't create a level playing field - it unlevels it. Athletes respond differently to all the different type of PEDs being used it. And there's dosage; some will go with a higher dose and have a higher risk of getting caught. Some will go with microdosing and never get caught, but won't get the full benefit of a doping problem.

With doping, it never was and never will be a level playing field.

the thing about lance wrote:

The truth is that all of his major rivals were juicing. All of them. It was wrong that they were all drugged up and not accepting team members unless they were willing to also.

But the question will always remain. Was it really cheating if they were all doing it?

If everyone cuts the same corner maybe it is sad but it's a level playing field.

This reasoning doesn't hold up. Yes his major rivals were dopers, but if a naturally talented rider during that era (more naturally talented than Armstrong) chose not to dope, he would never have been a major rival to begin with. No amount of natural talent was going to outweigh the benefits of EPO, etc, being enjoyed by the merely talented. For example, a hypothetical cyclist who was 5% better than Armstrong in clean competition would not be able to be even a major rival to Armstrong if he chose not to dope while Armstrong gained 10% from doping.

It's just logic. Let's say, hypothetically, you take the 1000 most talented runners who wanted to go pro in the 90's, but they soon found out that to succeed as a pro, you needed to take EPO. Out of that 1000, some would make an ethical choice not to take EPO, and thus be eliminated. Others would not be able to procure EPO for one reason or another, or would not receive good medical assistance (remember Lance had Dr Ferrari), or a protective national body, etc. So all you can say of the eventual champions of that era is that they were the best of the EPO abusers.

And even then, that just might mean that they responded better to EPO than their rivals.

I totally agree with this - sorry if my post covers some of the same points - I must have been writing it while you posted yours.

No.

Trump has much more important things to concern himself with. It is essential he spends his time and effort pardoning New York liberals such as Charles Kushner.

Let’s just admit it guys, it’s a little clique and any of us who believed he’d drain the swamp were duped.

He was in trouble financially from the lawsuits and admitted this but got lucky and made $30 million off an uber investment from 100k when the company was getting started which saved him from going broke.

This debate reminds me of that Bill Burr bit about him on Conan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9YL04v-J5U

Lance is a d!ck wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

He needs his wins back! Trump can make the French do that.

He still displays his trophies and jerseys. In his mind, he still has his wins.

I bought an Olympic medal on eBay.

People say its cheating but everyone in the Olympics cheats anyway. We all do what we have to.

I display the medal on my wall. In my mind I have the win.

Williams Racing F1 wrote:

Lance is a d!ck wrote:

He still displays his trophies and jerseys. In his mind, he still has his wins.

I bought an Olympic medal on eBay.

People say its cheating but everyone in the Olympics cheats anyway. We all do what we have to.

I display the medal on my wall. In my mind I have the win.

Perfect analogy. Believing you won because you bought a medal on ebay is exactly the same as believing you won because you came in first in the actual race.

Good job.