El Guerrouj 2k WR - Incredible 3:49 Mile pace

Armstronglivs wrote:

"Put up or shut up"? Sigh.

Each breath has a given intake of oxygen but the amount that is transported to the rest of the body will depend on how many red blood cells you have."" That is why every paper on the topic says that a higher red blood cell count improves aerobic capacity. It cannot improve aerobic capacity unless the amount of oxygen transported is higher for the given intake of oxygen - which, to the layperson like you, is a single breath. Again, a very simple case of cause and effect.

So how does that work? How does your latest claim that the same intake of oxygen with each breath delivers more oxygen with more red blood cells?

Wouldn't that mean that each red blood cell was carrying less oxygen, not more?

You have now changed your story around and it makes no more sense than your last claim.

You have been spending too much time following your favourite politician, the one you claim to despise and his debating method seems to have greatly influenced your thought processes.

So how does EPO extract more oxygen from the air?

How do the "extra red blood cells" transport "increased amounts of oxygen" by breathing the same amount of air?

Your explanation doesn't make any sense. Where does the extra oxygen come from? How does the extra oxygen get into your lungs if you are breathing the same amount of air?

How does that work?[/quote]

Greater RBC density provides more binding sites for oxygen, therefore allows more oxygen to be extracted from the same volume of air.

What is comical is that you think repeating the same statements without providing the requested data, or observations, or authoritative external support will address your failure to provide the data, or observations, or authoritative external support.

I understand the words you are saying, but it doesn't cure any of the failures I have identified. This is indendent of my level on the knowledge -- you clearly haven't provided the requested references to expert descriptions of the relation between breathing and EPO.

To mask these failures, another one of your psychological defense mechanisms is to speak in analogies. This only highlights your inability to participate in the topic at hand.

Greater RBC density provides more binding sites for oxygen, therefore allows more oxygen to be extracted from the same volume of air.[/quote]

Really? So if I don't take EPO I'm not extracting as much oxygen from the air as I could if I was on the stuff?

So you are saying that runners who aren't on EPO are wasting precious oxygen?

How does that work?

Grassrunner wrote:

Greater RBC density provides more binding sites for oxygen, therefore allows more oxygen to be extracted from the same volume of air.

So with all of the extra red blood cells, we are depleting oxygen from the lungs at a higher rate, and the obvious conclusion is that the rate of breathing - the only way to replenish oxygen in the lungs -- actually decreases?

This seems counter-intuitive.

rekrunner wrote:

Grassrunner wrote:

Greater RBC density provides more binding sites for oxygen, therefore allows more oxygen to be extracted from the same volume of air.

So with all of the extra red blood cells, we are depleting oxygen from the lungs at a higher rate, and the obvious conclusion is that the rate of breathing - the only way to replenish oxygen in the lungs -- actually decreases?

This seems counter-intuitive.

Maybe John Kellogg can explain it?

He's a genius you know? Maybe Luv2run? Maybe Steve Magness? They have all made similar fantastic claims.

Maybe now is the time to ask them to explain themselves or apologise for misinforming the public?

Don't you get the feeling though that they really don't practice what they preach?

Greater RBC density provides more binding sites for oxygen, therefore allows more oxygen to be extracted from the same volume of air.[/quote]

Too logical; too clear - it won't be able to be understood by the lunatic fringe here with their, "but how does that work?" question, or "what formal study (that I can agree with - which I can't) proves that to be the case?"

Tell us how EPO extracts more oxygen from the same amount of air?

Where does that extra oxygen come from?

If it's so simple and obvious, it should be easy to explain?

how does that work? wrote:

Tell us how EPO extracts more oxygen from the same amount of air?

Where does that extra oxygen come from?

If it's so simple and obvious, it should be easy to explain?

It's extremely obvious.

When you inhale the air is made up of on average around 21% oxygen

When you exhale the air has on average 16% oxygen.

You don't use anywhere near the total oxygen available in the air in each a breath.

If you did then mouth to mouth wouldn't work.

We breathe out oxygen and carbon dioxide.

The oxygen doesn't disappear.

how does that work? wrote:

We breathe out oxygen and carbon dioxide.

The oxygen doesn't disappear.

So I think you've answered your own question then, on top of my answer.

You asked where does the 'extra' oxygen come from when inhaling and using EPO.

I answered by telling you that a human only uses about 5% of the air they inhale and they exhale the rest in normal circumstances.

In theory someone could up that utilisation to much higher numbers I'd assume?

I don't know if that is the pathway which causes EPO to increase performance, but the 'extra' oxygen is there, available.

The oxygen that is used is bound to RBCs. EPO is supposed to make more RBCs available. One might assume your oxygen use efficiency per breath increases. Would need to be tested.

how does that work? wrote:

Tell us how EPO extracts more oxygen from the same amount of air?

Where does that extra oxygen come from?

If it's so simple and obvious, it should be easy to explain?

The air Jon, it comes from the air.

When you do CPR you blow out oxygen that your body was unable to extract.

Never get CPR from a doper. They breathe out pure CO2.

ex-runner wrote:

how does that work? wrote:

We breathe out oxygen and carbon dioxide.

The oxygen doesn't disappear.

So I think you've answered your own question then, on top of my answer.

You asked where does the 'extra' oxygen come from when inhaling and using EPO.

I answered by telling you that a human only uses about 5% of the air they inhale and they exhale the rest in normal circumstances.

In theory someone could up that utilisation to much higher numbers I'd assume?

I don't know if that is the pathway which causes EPO to increase performance, but the 'extra' oxygen is there, available.

The oxygen that is used is bound to RBCs. EPO is supposed to make more RBCs available. One might assume your oxygen use efficiency per breath increases. Would need to be tested.

The 5% figure is the resting value. We produce less CO2 at rest because we are oxidizing fats as well as carbs. The oxygen is metabolized, we dont waste oxygen.

When running we exhale more CO2. At the ventilatory threshold it is the same figure, oxygen breathed in and carbon dioxide breathed out are equal.

I don't know if Armstronglivs is trolling or just mentally unhinged?

ex-runner wrote:

how does that work? wrote:

We breathe out oxygen and carbon dioxide.

The oxygen doesn't disappear.

So I think you've answered your own question then, on top of my answer.

You asked where does the 'extra' oxygen come from when inhaling and using EPO.

I answered by telling you that a human only uses about 5% of the air they inhale and they exhale the rest in normal circumstances.

In theory someone could up that utilisation to much higher numbers I'd assume?

I don't know if that is the pathway which causes EPO to increase performance, but the 'extra' oxygen is there, available.

The oxygen that is used is bound to RBCs. EPO is supposed to make more RBCs available. One might assume your oxygen use efficiency per breath increases. Would need to be tested.

Yes, it could be tested if you wanted further analysis of that feature but it is easily observed in athletes we have learned we doped; they showed no signs of fatigue including being out of breath. Their performances appeared effortless. This would not be possible without increased oxygen efficiency per breath.

Yo Sara ian wrote:

how does that work? wrote:

Tell us how EPO extracts more oxygen from the same amount of air?

Where does that extra oxygen come from?

If it's so simple and obvious, it should be easy to explain?

The air Jon, it comes from the air.

When you do CPR you blow out oxygen that your body was unable to extract.

Never get CPR from a doper. They breathe out pure CO2.

So how does that work? Try again with some actual science.

You should know because they are both your specialty, Jon.

So how does that work? How does EPO allow an athlete to use more oxygen from the same volume of air?

In a new episode of Team Ingebrigtsen there is a note of a session Jakob did two weeks before 4.50.

It was a progressive 4x400 x 3

61,60,59 for the series , 90 sec rest, 3 minute set rest

ex-runner wrote:

how does that work? wrote:

We breathe out oxygen and carbon dioxide.

The oxygen doesn't disappear.

So I think you've answered your own question then, on top of my answer.

You asked where does the 'extra' oxygen come from when inhaling and using EPO.

I answered by telling you that a human only uses about 5% of the air they inhale and they exhale the rest in normal circumstances.

You don't actually believe that do you?