What the hell. Dr. Fauci admits to the NY Times he's purposely misled us yet again about % needed to get to herd immunity

seattle prattle wrote:

rojo wrote:

Let me start by saying I've been cautious as hell about Covid all year long. My brother in law hasn't gone to a single store since the pandemic hit. I know that hundreds of thousands of died.

What I have never understood is how everyone loves Dr. Fauci - on both the left and right. I'll admit that I'm naturally a skeptic but when he told us not to get masks in the early stages of the pandemic, I instinctively didn't believe him. Then months later, I didn't get why he and everyone was up in arms when some were questioning the insistence that we all mask up all the time.

People are insisting, "We must follow the science." But what does that mean? Are we supposed to have known when Fauci is speaking about science and when he's just lying to us. He justified his masks comments by saying that he was just trying to protect the PPPE equipment for the medical professionals. But check out his actual quote. It doesn't talk about PPPE, it talks about all masks.

Plus this is the guy who went to a baseball game, didn't sit six feet apart from two people and took off his mask.

And now Fauci has done it again. A NY Times reporter noticed he's been quietly upping his numbers on herd immunity.

Now Fauci has once again admitted, he was lying all along. Check this out (bold added by yours truly).

Dear Dr. Fauci. Please STOP. Tell us the truth 100% of the time. If people are lied to once, they aren't going to believe what you say down the road as they will conclude, 'If we are lied to once, we may be lied to again.'

The arrogance of the elite drives me nuts. They act like they are so smart we can't handle the truth so they should lie to us. No.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/health/herd-immunity-covid-coronavirus.html

LRC co-founder Wejo's note: I'm changing the title of the thread from "been lying to us" to "purposely misled us". It's Christmas Day and associating Dr. Fauci with the word lie really rubs people the wrong way, including my aunt.

Wejo, why would you change the title of the thread to avoid using the term "lie" yet you allow the post to contain the term in almost every paragraph?

"Lie" is asserted at least four times in the post, and is the essential message Rojo intends to make.

I contend that Dr. Faucci is not lying to the public, and is not misleading them. I contend that Dr. Faucci is shifting his numbers to the higher end of the ranges he uses because the disease is indeed changing and is becoming more transmissible (for example, the variant in England that is feared to be 50% more transmissible) and because he understands that the public is becoming more receptive to accepting those numbers.

This is not a very big change in his numbers, perhaps only 10% or so, given that the data clearly points to actual rise in the percentage needed to achieve herd immunity. ANd remember, they don't know the precise number and it is a range, so some interpreting of the numbers is warranted and okay and expected.

To viciously conclude that we have been lied to is a gross overstatement.

In fact, it appears that you and Rojo, as owners of this site, are guilty of exactly what you accuse others of. You are misleading people in your statements. These are not lies. And we don't need owners of popular message boards creating distrust and inciting the public during a time of a world pandemic, esp. when our hope of beating it needs exactly the thing you are undermining.

Shame on the both of you.

Why don't you just stay neutral and not start threads like this?

I feel you have done all of us a disservice.

Dan Kahneman wrote:

seattle prattle wrote:

Wejo, why would you change the title of the thread to avoid using the term "lie" yet you allow the post to contain the term in almost every paragraph?

"Lie" is asserted at least four times in the post, and is the essential message Rojo intends to make.

I contend that Dr. Faucci is not lying to the public, and is not misleading them. I contend that Dr. Faucci is shifting his numbers to the higher end of the ranges he uses because the disease is indeed changing and is becoming more transmissible (for example, the variant in England that is feared to be 50% more transmissible) and because he understands that the public is becoming more receptive to accepting those numbers.

This is not a very big change in his numbers, perhaps only 10% or so, given that the data clearly points to actual rise in the percentage needed to achieve herd immunity. ANd remember, they don't know the precise number and it is a range, so some interpreting of the numbers is warranted and okay and expected.

To viciously conclude that we have been lied to is a gross overstatement.

In fact, it appears that you and Rojo, as owners of this site, are guilty of exactly what you accuse others of. You are misleading people in your statements. These are not lies. And we don't need owners of popular message boards creating distrust and inciting the public during a time of a world pandemic, esp. when our hope of beating it needs exactly the thing you are undermining.

Shame on the both of you.

Why don't you just stay neutral and not start threads like this?

I feel you have done all of us a disservice.

I have to strongly agree with seattle p on this. SHAME ON BOTH OF YOU!

Let me carefully and clearly explain why this thread was irresponsible for you to start.

(1) As owners of this site your posts carry much more weight than any other posters. Your posts most generally get a greater response that other's posts. They do. So you have greater responsibility to make sure your posts are ethical and of higher value. Right?

(2) You admit this pandemic has been dangerous to people and that you personally are careful and take precautions , right? But you know a huge number of people don't believe that and don't feel the need to take safety precautions, right?

(3) There has been an absolute ton of false information about this disease, much of it coming from our president, but from numerous other unreliable sources. Many people believe this information and it leads to dangerous behavior. Right?

(4) The most reliable person has been Fauci. (Can you think of anyone who has been more reliable than Fauci?) As far as his early on stating masks won't make you safer, everyone was saying that. As far as changing estimates of the number needed for herd immunity he has repeatedly said they were not facts but estimates. But you take these two quasi mistatements and you start a thread with the implication that Fauci can't be trusted because he is a liar. Those who want to believe reckless behavior is okay and that covid is just like the flu, jump all over your thread. Suddenly they think that they don't have to listen to Fauci, he is not credible and covid is a big hoax. You read the posts on this thread from the deniers that suddenly think they have justification.

As owners and based on your personal behavior you would have done a much greater service to all to explain who to believe and who not to believe instead of picking a couple of statements and then presenting Fauci as unreliable. That is a huge disservice and unlike some posters here, I fault you because you know better. Your posts do carry weight.

Also your statement grouping Fauci, "As one of those elites" tells me there is more motivation behind your thread than you might not recognize.

You need to clarify your position about who to believe. (Don't say just do your own research because people are following unreliable sources based on confirmation bias.)

13 50 wrote:

Dan Kahneman wrote:

I have to strongly agree with seattle p on this. SHAME ON BOTH OF YOU!

Let me carefully and clearly explain why this thread was irresponsible for you to start.

(1) As owners of this site your posts carry much more weight than any other posters. Your posts most generally get a greater response that other's posts. They do. So you have greater responsibility to make sure your posts are ethical and of higher value. Right?

(2) You admit this pandemic has been dangerous to people and that you personally are careful and take precautions , right? But you know a huge number of people don't believe that and don't feel the need to take safety precautions, right?

(3) There has been an absolute ton of false information about this disease, much of it coming from our president, but from numerous other unreliable sources. Many people believe this information and it leads to dangerous behavior. Right?

(4) The most reliable person has been Fauci. (Can you think of anyone who has been more reliable than Fauci?) As far as his early on stating masks won't make you safer, everyone was saying that. As far as changing estimates of the number needed for herd immunity he has repeatedly said they were not facts but estimates. But you take these two quasi mistatements and you start a thread with the implication that Fauci can't be trusted because he is a liar. Those who want to believe reckless behavior is okay and that covid is just like the flu, jump all over your thread. Suddenly they think that they don't have to listen to Fauci, he is not credible and covid is a big hoax. You read the posts on this thread from the deniers that suddenly think they have justification.

As owners and based on your personal behavior you would have done a much greater service to all to explain who to believe and who not to believe instead of picking a couple of statements and then presenting Fauci as unreliable. That is a huge disservice and unlike some posters here, I fault you because you know better. Your posts do carry weight.

Also your statement grouping Fauci, "As one of those elites" tells me there is more motivation behind your thread than you might not recognize.

You need to clarify your position about who to believe. (Don't say just do your own research because people are following unreliable sources based on confirmation bias.)

(Kahneman) is very very nervous.