Why isn't anyone asking how China got rid of cvd19 without mass vaccination?

Coronavirus General Discussion

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3 years ago 12/17/2020 12:35pm EST

re: Hodgie-sanfan

Hodgie-sanfan wrote:
Then stop ordering off Amazon, going to get groceries, ordering take out, grabbing a coffee, sending your kids to school hybrid remote, and going into the office "just a couple times".
Everyone I know that is calling for full or partial shutdowns are the same people at Walmart, Dunking Donuts and ordering from Amazon. Who exactly do you think stocks the shelves, drives the goods from warehouse to store, who package and deliver your Christmas presents? Shutdown of convenience for you but the government isn't exactly able or willing to fund a true full shutdown. Nor do they want to, they just want to see how often and how much you will follow instructions. Your doing good, Sheep. Live in fear of a lower than 1% death rate. Meanwhile keep eating horribly increasing your rate of heart disease at a rate greater than 1%.
If this disease had proven to be more than it is you wouldn't have the divisiveness in how to handle it. If this disease had healthy young people dropping dead by the 100's of thousands than you would have your full shutdowns. It ended up being not that and a virus that maybe is slightly more potent than the flu for those with prior conditions. Thus you have people wanting to get on with their lives full well knowing the risks involved with living life to the fullest.

You described the quintessential upper middle class liberal.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 12:40pm EST

re: Lead Foil Hat IV

China may have covered up some of the extent of the infection, but there is no way the Chinese would be able to cover up an ongoing mass infection. It is not 1950. China is very much integrated with the West now. If there were massive outbreak in China, there would be disruptions in the supply chain from Chinese factories. There are some things that even the most totalitarian government cannot keep quiet. Also, the Chinese have publicly announced lockdowns on a number of occasions when new cases made it into the country.

China beat COVID 19 because it has a lot of experience with stopping infectious diseases. SARS and MERS were just two of the more publicized infectious disease outbreaks in China. There is a very well developed system in China for controlling outbreaks. It is a centralized system where local governments are given resources from the central government and held responsible for stopping outbreaks. There are no politics. The owner of a big factory in a province has no ability to influence the government response. They are entirely separate lanes of political influence. In the US, the response is completely left to the political whims of the states with the Federal government only providing guidance and assistance. The CDC cannot remove the director of HHS is Texas and order a lockdown because the Texas task force on COVID is made up of business leaders who have convinced the governor to avoid any restrictions.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 12:46pm EST

re: Runner10287

Runner10287 wrote:
You described the quintessential upper middle class liberal.

Between COVID and Trump losing you have been on a tear of mad-posting the last few weeks.

Get some holiday cheer yeah? Christmas cheer? I'll even use the C-word just for you :)

3 years ago 12/17/2020 12:52pm EST

re: Harambe

3 years ago 12/17/2020 1:17pm EST

re: Mr. Pedantip

It doesn't have to be draconian. For example, look at Taiwan, they have had zero cases for many months with the right approach. You have to at least have the willingness to do it right.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 1:25pm EST

re: mask hater

They welded people who tested positive into their apartments till they got better or died. Trump shoulda done the same.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 1:48pm EST

re: poonmoi

poonmoi wrote:
They aren't as fat as Americans..

No, but they eat bats

3 years ago 12/17/2020 3:40pm EST

re: Luv2Run

The key facts, totally warranted and totally successful. Citizens didn't lose rights because they never had any guaranteed. Had this been enacted in a democracy, it could easily have been justified as a short-term measure necessary for the common welfare. Democracies that were nearly as successful in stopping it are wide-ranging, including New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Uruguay, ...

“The speed of China's response was the crucial factor”, explains Gregory Poland, director of the Vaccine Research Group at the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, Minnesota, USA). “They moved very quickly to stop transmission. Other countries, even though they had much longer to prepare for the arrival of the virus, delayed their response and that meant they lost control”. The first reported cases of the disease that came to be known as COVID-19 occurred in Wuhan, Hubei province, in late December 2019. China released the genomic sequence of the virus on Jan 10, 2020, and began enacting a raft of rigorous countermeasures later in the same month.

Wuhan was placed under a strict lockdown that lasted 76 days. Public transport was suspended. Soon afterwards, similar measures were implemented in every city in Hubei province. Across the country, 14 000 health checkpoints were established at public transport hubs. School re-openings after the winter vacation were delayed and population movements were severely curtailed. Dozens of cities implemented family outdoor restrictions, which typically meant that only one member of each household was permitted to leave the home every couple of days to collect necessary supplies. Within weeks, China had managed to test 9 million people for SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan. It set up an effective national system of contact tracing. By contrast, the UK's capacity for contact tracing was overwhelmed soon after the pandemic struck the country.

As the world's largest manufacturer of personal protective equipment, it was relatively straightforward for China to ramp up production of clinical gowns and surgical masks. Moreover, the Chinese readily adopted mask wearing. “Compliance was very high”, said Chen. “Compare that with the USA, where even in June and July, when the virus was surging, people were still refusing to wear masks. Even in late September, President Trump still treated Joe Biden's mask-wearing as a weakness to be ridiculed”.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 4:08pm EST

re: snxdcf

snxdcf wrote:
4getabouttits wrote:
Please tell us
Yes sir.
We could also control the virus (with NO vaccine) in a matter of 6-8 weeks if we would simply follow basic epidemiological advice and time-honored practices. There is no mystery here. Its just a virus. Its not a magical being.
Sadly, we're dumbfccks. The answer is right there staring at us. We simply refuse to acknowledge it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMZyZObOB54

3 years ago 12/17/2020 4:08pm EST

re: Precious Roy

Two posts i find particularly insightful and informative:

Precious Roy wrote:
China may have covered up some of the extent of the infection, but there is no way the Chinese would be able to cover up an ongoing mass infection. It is not 1950. China is very much integrated with the West now. If there were massive outbreak in China, there would be disruptions in the supply chain from Chinese factories. There are some things that even the most totalitarian government cannot keep quiet. Also, the Chinese have publicly announced lockdowns on a number of occasions when new cases made it into the country.
China beat COVID 19 because it has a lot of experience with stopping infectious diseases. SARS and MERS were just two of the more publicized infectious disease outbreaks in China. There is a very well developed system in China for controlling outbreaks. It is a centralized system where local governments are given resources from the central government and held responsible for stopping outbreaks. There are no politics. The owner of a big factory in a province has no ability to influence the government response. They are entirely separate lanes of political influence. In the US, the response is completely left to the political whims of the states with the Federal government only providing guidance and assistance. The CDC cannot remove the director of HHS is Texas and order a lockdown because the Texas task force on COVID is made up of business leaders who have convinced the governor to avoid any restrictions.

zxczxcv wrote:
The key facts, totally warranted and totally successful. Citizens didn't lose rights because they never had any guaranteed. Had this been enacted in a democracy, it could easily have been justified as a short-term measure necessary for the common welfare. Democracies that were nearly as successful in stopping it are wide-ranging, including New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Uruguay, ...
“The speed of China's response was the crucial factor”, explains Gregory Poland, director of the Vaccine Research Group at the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, Minnesota, USA). “They moved very quickly to stop transmission. Other countries, even though they had much longer to prepare for the arrival of the virus, delayed their response and that meant they lost control”. The first reported cases of the disease that came to be known as COVID-19 occurred in Wuhan, Hubei province, in late December 2019. China released the genomic sequence of the virus on Jan 10, 2020, and began enacting a raft of rigorous countermeasures later in the same month.
Wuhan was placed under a strict lockdown that lasted 76 days. Public transport was suspended. Soon afterwards, similar measures were implemented in every city in Hubei province. Across the country, 14 000 health checkpoints were established at public transport hubs. School re-openings after the winter vacation were delayed and population movements were severely curtailed. Dozens of cities implemented family outdoor restrictions, which typically meant that only one member of each household was permitted to leave the home every couple of days to collect necessary supplies. Within weeks, China had managed to test 9 million people for SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan. It set up an effective national system of contact tracing. By contrast, the UK's capacity for contact tracing was overwhelmed soon after the pandemic struck the country.
As the world's largest manufacturer of personal protective equipment, it was relatively straightforward for China to ramp up production of clinical gowns and surgical masks. Moreover, the Chinese readily adopted mask wearing. “Compliance was very high”, said Chen. “Compare that with the USA, where even in June and July, when the virus was surging, people were still refusing to wear masks. Even in late September, President Trump still treated Joe Biden's mask-wearing as a weakness to be ridiculed”.

Nicely done.

I wonder if the US had approached this challenge in a competitive fashion if we could have done better. Truth be told, we faced it in an adverserial way as it got politicized. Fighting from within.

But what if we approached it like our country has to fight this better than other nations. What if we considered it an unacceptable affront if the chinese opened up sooner, or with less loss of life, or more effectively? Instead, we get this total BS like lets just lie about the numbers, they must be covering up, death totals due to other causes, etc... Or just insist we turned the corner.

This country has a real competitive streak when its focused upon it. We should have approached it this way. Instead, this.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 4:15pm EST

re: Luv2Run

They have 10,000 times fewer social Gatherings than we do without masks They basically wear masks all the time and they don't have social gatherings Do you think college kids are partying in China anyway near like they are here Do you think politicians are having big gatherings without masks Do you think the average citizens are getting together in large groups You're not going to spread a respiratory virus if you're always wearing a mask and you don't have any large congregations

Luv2Run wrote:
Took a minute on Google...
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext
Very draconian measures.
Also, I wonder if with all the other SARS epidemics there might be more resistance.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 5:03pm EST

re: seattle prattle

seattle prattle wrote:
Two posts i find particularly insightful and informative:
Precious Roy wrote:
China may have covered up some of the extent of the infection, but there is no way the Chinese would be able to cover up an ongoing mass infection. It is not 1950. China is very much integrated with the West now. If there were massive outbreak in China, there would be disruptions in the supply chain from Chinese factories. There are some things that even the most totalitarian government cannot keep quiet. Also, the Chinese have publicly announced lockdowns on a number of occasions when new cases made it into the country.
China beat COVID 19 because it has a lot of experience with stopping infectious diseases. SARS and MERS were just two of the more publicized infectious disease outbreaks in China. There is a very well developed system in China for controlling outbreaks. It is a centralized system where local governments are given resources from the central government and held responsible for stopping outbreaks. There are no politics. The owner of a big factory in a province has no ability to influence the government response. They are entirely separate lanes of political influence. In the US, the response is completely left to the political whims of the states with the Federal government only providing guidance and assistance. The CDC cannot remove the director of HHS is Texas and order a lockdown because the Texas task force on COVID is made up of business leaders who have convinced the governor to avoid any restrictions.
zxczxcv wrote:
The key facts, totally warranted and totally successful. Citizens didn't lose rights because they never had any guaranteed. Had this been enacted in a democracy, it could easily have been justified as a short-term measure necessary for the common welfare. Democracies that were nearly as successful in stopping it are wide-ranging, including New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Uruguay, ...
“The speed of China's response was the crucial factor”, explains Gregory Poland, director of the Vaccine Research Group at the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, Minnesota, USA). “They moved very quickly to stop transmission. Other countries, even though they had much longer to prepare for the arrival of the virus, delayed their response and that meant they lost control”. The first reported cases of the disease that came to be known as COVID-19 occurred in Wuhan, Hubei province, in late December 2019. China released the genomic sequence of the virus on Jan 10, 2020, and began enacting a raft of rigorous countermeasures later in the same month.
Wuhan was placed under a strict lockdown that lasted 76 days. Public transport was suspended. Soon afterwards, similar measures were implemented in every city in Hubei province. Across the country, 14 000 health checkpoints were established at public transport hubs. School re-openings after the winter vacation were delayed and population movements were severely curtailed. Dozens of cities implemented family outdoor restrictions, which typically meant that only one member of each household was permitted to leave the home every couple of days to collect necessary supplies. Within weeks, China had managed to test 9 million people for SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan. It set up an effective national system of contact tracing. By contrast, the UK's capacity for contact tracing was overwhelmed soon after the pandemic struck the country.
As the world's largest manufacturer of personal protective equipment, it was relatively straightforward for China to ramp up production of clinical gowns and surgical masks. Moreover, the Chinese readily adopted mask wearing. “Compliance was very high”, said Chen. “Compare that with the USA, where even in June and July, when the virus was surging, people were still refusing to wear masks. Even in late September, President Trump still treated Joe Biden's mask-wearing as a weakness to be ridiculed”.
Nicely done.
I wonder if the US had approached this challenge in a competitive fashion if we could have done better. Truth be told, we faced it in an adverserial way as it got politicized. Fighting from within.
But what if we approached it like our country has to fight this better than other nations. What if we considered it an unacceptable affront if the chinese opened up sooner, or with less loss of life, or more effectively? Instead, we get this total BS like lets just lie about the numbers, they must be covering up, death totals due to other causes, etc... Or just insist we turned the corner.
This country has a real competitive streak when its focused upon it. We should have approached it this way. Instead, this.

Did you consider it an 'affront' when Trump made the travel from China decision in late January? Was that not good enough? The adversary's were mainly Democrat politicians that made it politicized.

Was Trump right to make the decision that he did? Were Pelosi, Biden, and others wrong to criticize that decision? Were they wrong to emphasize crowd gatherings over a month later in late Feb and early March?

3 years ago 12/17/2020 5:09pm EST

re: Original Gangsta

Original Gangsta wrote:
seattle prattle wrote:
Two posts i find particularly insightful and informative:
Nicely done.
I wonder if the US had approached this challenge in a competitive fashion if we could have done better. Truth be told, we faced it in an adverserial way as it got politicized. Fighting from within.
But what if we approached it like our country has to fight this better than other nations. What if we considered it an unacceptable affront if the chinese opened up sooner, or with less loss of life, or more effectively? Instead, we get this total BS like lets just lie about the numbers, they must be covering up, death totals due to other causes, etc... Or just insist we turned the corner.
This country has a real competitive streak when its focused upon it. We should have approached it this way. Instead, this.
Did you consider it an 'affront' when Trump made the travel from China decision in late January? Was that not good enough? The adversary's were mainly Democrat politicians that made it politicized.
Was Trump right to make the decision that he did? Were Pelosi, Biden, and others wrong to criticize that decision? Were they wrong to emphasize crowd gatherings over a month later in late Feb and early March?

Your assertion is riddled with inaccuracies, too numerous to cover here (and by me). Educate yourself, please, and let me help in that regard:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

3 years ago 12/17/2020 5:31pm EST

re: fences anyone?

fences anyone? wrote:
IIRC, they literally stopped movement within and between cities to stop the virus’ spread. They also have an aggressive contact tracing / GPS app most everyone has to use. Between the two, yea you can stop a pandemic.
Very few countries are willing and able to do that.

Yep. A lot of Asian countries seem to be doing similar things.

In S.K. once a person tests positive they are isolated and a contact trace team is dispatched. Most if not all businesses have Covid sign in rosters to aid this trace.

Also everyone wears a mask because common sense.

S.K. has approx 10x the population of KY but KY has approx 10x # of daily cases.

Alan

3 years ago 12/17/2020 5:50pm EST

re: Harambe

Harambe wrote:
Runner10287 wrote:
You described the quintessential upper middle class liberal.
Between COVID and Trump losing you have been on a tear of mad-posting the last few weeks.
Get some holiday cheer yeah? Christmas cheer? I'll even use the C-word just for you :)

Have I commented much on the election? Or is that just your severe TDS showing with your COVID obsession?

3 years ago 12/17/2020 5:52pm EST

re: cross training

cross training wrote:
They have 10,000 times fewer social Gatherings than we do without masks
They basically wear masks all the time and they don't have social gatherings
Do you think college kids are partying in China anyway near like they are here
Do you think politicians are having big gatherings without masks
Do you think the average citizens are getting together in large groups
You're not going to spread a respiratory virus if you're always wearing a mask and you don't have any large congregations
Luv2Run wrote:
Took a minute on Google...
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext
Very draconian measures.
Also, I wonder if with all the other SARS epidemics there might be more resistance.

Sounds like a terrible country but they sure are little obedient bots.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 7:30pm EST

re: Harambe

Harambe wrote:
Runner10287 wrote:
You described the quintessential upper middle class liberal.
Between COVID and Trump losing you have been on a tear of mad-posting the last few weeks.
Get some holiday cheer yeah? Christmas cheer? I'll even use the C-word just for you :)

You realize everything isn't Trump's fault, right? You sad little man.

The US is far from the only country still battling this. F-ing cvnt

3 years ago 12/17/2020 7:34pm EST

re: CCP is evil just like CNN

CCP is evil just like CNN wrote:
Harambe wrote:
Between COVID and Trump losing you have been on a tear of mad-posting the last few weeks.
Get some holiday cheer yeah? Christmas cheer? I'll even use the C-word just for you :)
You realize everything isn't Trump's fault, right? You sad little man.
The US is far from the only country still battling this. F-ing cvnt

When did I say it was Trump's fault in this thread?

I mean yes, you're right, it is -- thanks for bringing attention to that :).

Imagine if Kennedy or Reagan saw you saying "but other countries are struggling too" as a excuse for America's failures. LOL. Using mediocrity as an excuse to bail out your dear leader -- embarrassing.

3 years ago 12/17/2020 8:02pm EST

re: seattle prattle

seattle prattle wrote:
Original Gangsta wrote:
Did you consider it an 'affront' when Trump made the travel from China decision in late January? Was that not good enough? The adversary's were mainly Democrat politicians that made it politicized.
Was Trump right to make the decision that he did? Were Pelosi, Biden, and others wrong to criticize that decision? Were they wrong to emphasize crowd gatherings over a month later in late Feb and early March?
Your assertion is riddled with inaccuracies, too numerous to cover here (and by me). Educate yourself, please, and let me help in that regard:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

Your propensity for propaganda is truly amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-j2c99iz60

3 years ago 12/17/2020 11:04pm EST

re: old_dead_people

old_dead_people wrote:
The same Lancet that published the dubious vaccines cause autism study? You are right Lancet all the way...

Yes, certain fraud may be difficult for them to pick up in their peer review process. It is more attuned to critiquing the soundness of work than rooting out wholesale lies. That is one of the big reasons for replication. You should avoid trusting a single study, or even multiple studies coming from the same lab.

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Why isn't anyone asking how China got rid of cvd19 without mass vaccination?

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