8x1000 w/2:00 recovery. What can I run for 5k based off this workout

highhoppingworm wrote:

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

Why does anyone care about predictor workouts for anything less than a marathon?In the marathon you don't run them often enough. 5k? You aren't going to be in much different shape this month than last. You know what 5k pace feels like. No predicator is going to be accurate enough to say if on a given day you are in 16:30 shape or 16:00 shape.

I don't agree with this statement. The difference in fitness between 16:30 and 16 flat is substantial and easily traceable back to performance in training.

I don't understand the hatred for these prediction threads. They are fun.

Yes the fitness level is different. But fitness level is only loosely coordinated with the ability to do workouts. There are 16:30 guys who can do this workout and 16:00 guys who can't. If you ran 16:30 last month while doing this workout in 3:20, you have a baseline to figure out where you are. Of course you just have to ask if you rested up more before the workout or had a good day.

It is beyond stupid to try and predict races off a workout when you have months of training, workouts, and race history to look at.

How do you have time to run 80mpw???

5k predicton wrote:

times were: 3:16, 3:16, 3:17, 3:15, 3:16, 3:18, 3:18, 3:16

Last 2 felt pretty tough and I could feel myself slipping a bit towards the end of the 7th one, but managed to get the last one in alright. Recent mileage has been around 80mpw. I've heard this is a pretty good predictor for 5k, so I'm wondering what I could run for 5k based off this workout.

16:30

If you felt uncomfortable and slipping near the end, you probably aren't going to run faster than 3:18 pace in your 5k. So 16:30 would be a solid time for you.

noahmacthegreat wrote:

How do you have time to run 80mpw???

I know, bro. I thought 40 was a lot...

Smoove wrote:

I was going to say 16:10.

I didn’t love your tempo pace though - strikes me as in the slow side for a 16:10 guy, even at more protected durations. 5:45 is closer to marathon pace for a 16:10 guy than what I would think of as tempo pace.

Still, the rest was on the short end of reasonable and the overall volume was good. I’d say between 16:10 and 16:20.

Breaking 16:00 wouldn’t surprise me if you were able to get some slightly sharper tempo workouts in.

gonna disagree with you smoove. not everybody is a masters guy with big engines.

5:45 as a tempo pace aligns pretty well with 16:15ish. definitely not closer to MP than tempo! true tempo might be 5:40 at best, but MP probably still 6:05

if I were OP, and I were racing a 5k next weekend on a track, I'd shoot for 78 per lap. that's exactly 16:15. nice and conservative, but fast enough to allow 16:0x if you underestimated fitness.

16:35-17:00. 2mins is too much rest to be good indicator. If it was 1 min rest I'd say 16:10-30

I am somewhere in between agreeing with both Reed and Smoove.

Just some data points as a 35 year old who ran 16:15 back in May 2020, 15:56 in September and then 15:45 in November.

Leading up to and immediately after the 16:15 I was running continuous tempos and cruise intervals(lots of 2 mile repeats) 5:45 down to 5:35.

Leading up to and immediately after the 15:56 I was running continuous tempos and cruise intervals(lots of 1.5 and 2 mile repeats) 5:40 down to 5:30.

Leading up to and immediately after the 15:45 I was running continuous tempos and cruise intervals(lots of 1.5 and 2 mile repeats) 5:35 down to 5:25.

I never really looked at this before but it seems that I get 15 seconds of 5k benefit for every 5 seconds that comes off my T pace which is kind of interesting.

Define comfortable. It's too vague I've given a more accurate predictor. than his and the ops session and pointed out you at least need to do a tempo properly tp work as a predictor..

You are right that his tempo is just a run.

5k predicton wrote:

times were: 3:16, 3:16, 3:17, 3:15, 3:16, 3:18, 3:18, 3:16

Last 2 felt pretty tough and I could feel myself slipping a bit towards the end of the 7th one, but managed to get the last one in alright. Recent mileage has been around 80mpw. I've heard this is a pretty good predictor for 5k, so I'm wondering what I could run for 5k based off this workout.

The main problem with that workout is some 16:00 runners could do that workout 10 secs faster per rep., But they may have better speed or be pushing harder or in a group.

The recoveries ae too long and reps too short, hence 4 x mile off 90. Alternatively if you do the 1km reps regularly you will know what shape you are in off previous race times

I don’t think there are many 16 minute 5k runners walking around that can run 8x1000 w/ 2’ rest in 3:06-3:08... in fact I would wager there are exactly 0.

It actually sounds like we agree on everything other than whether 5:45 is closer to tempo or marathon pace, which is a minor point as compared to the larger point, which is that we agree he is in 16:10ish shape and that his tempos may be a little off.

For the record, per Daniels, 5:45 is almost exactly half way between tempo and marathon pace for a 16:10 guy

Workout heroes.

I’m not sure I’d reach the conclusion that running workouts at paces that correspond with fitness levels demonstrated by recent races makes one a workout hero.

We are operating in a little bit of a vacuum here with respect to OP, but the rest of the conversation centers around what appropriate and effective training paces are for someone at a particular fitness level.

In a race I think sub 16:10 is possible.

But take those 2 min recoveries down to 1 min.

That's why I hate the term tempo. It's so ambiguous. Let me be more specific.....Sub Threshold, not crossing OBLA < 4mmol lactic acid.

If he can do the workout he listed AND run 40 min at 6:00 pace without going over 4 mmol....he's good. Unless he's got a blood lactate meter handy though, he won't know, so I just said 40 minutes comfortably. A lot of coaches use the term "sub threshold" nowadays. Maybe that's what I should have said.

Another way to say "tempo" would be 20-25 min at 5:45 ish pace comfortably.

I'm mostly coming up with those numbers based on my experience with high school kids who tend to be pretty weak at tempo / threshold / sub threshold type running, so what seems like a relatively slow tempo to you, seems like an indicator for a fast time to me.

16:30 to 16:45- the work volume is good but, your recoveries are too long. You are not training your lactate clearance abilities.

100% agree with this.