Is it possible to break 16 (5k) with a 63s 400?

HRE wrote:

The OP doesn't need to wait until his third year of college for anything. He can start running more now. I'd have done that in high school if I'd known to. He doesn't say how much he runs so maybe it's a lot and then yes, working on speed would be the way to go. But I'm betting he's not running that much. My kids were both running at least 50-60 a week at 17. If he wants to pick a short distance time to work on improving to get under 16:00 it should be the mile and two mile.

I ran 40-50 mpw in HS and not much more in college.

I say that mileage is not the answer for the mile either.

This thread brings out the fundamental differences in training philosophies, and these differences are the underpinning of LRC.

So I think the discussion is valuable for anyone, not just OP.

I am waiting to see how Jenna Hutchins races in a 5K next week (I think it is a track 5K), and what she runs in the 800m, 1600m, and 3200m this track season.

OP said he is going to work on his speed, and he will do well.

Another giver of +1 wrote:

I tend to agree that developing 200/400 speed is useful, especially at a young age. If the OP improves his 400 time, even to 60s, there are benefits for longer distances. For example, if he is running an interval session, 8 x 400 at 74s, it will feel less stressful if he has 60 or better 400 speed than if he only has 63 speed. Running economy may improve too. Also, his times at 800 and 1500 should improve which helps with the 5000 providing his aerobic ability isn't neglected.

It depends on how he develops his speed. If he takes 6 months and trains a 200/400m guy (not mileage, lots of weight, plyos and short sprints), that is basically. useless improvement. If he keeps training as a 5k guy (lots of mileage, tempo runs, and the like) while doing some speed work (i.e. 8s hill sprints, 100s,....) then you are getting useful speed improvement.

honestly I struggle to believe that many people can't break 63 in the 400m. I can't think of a single distance guy on my HS team that couldn't do that. Even the slow ones. Lots of guys who couldn't break 60 though. And very few running sub 56....

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

honestly I struggle to believe that many people can't break 63 in the 400m. I can't think of a single distance guy on my HS team that couldn't do that. Even the slow ones. Lots of guys who couldn't break 60 though. And very few running sub 56....

OP ran 2:14 for 800m, which is 63.5 average. He is much better than 63, but it seems a lot of HS runners don't have the expected progressions because of no spring track, then a haphazard summer, and many more problems this fall because they can't get out and run like normal students would.

76chine wrote:

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I ran 40-50 mpw in HS and not much more in college.

I say that mileage is not the answer for the mile either.

This thread brings out the fundamental differences in training philosophies, and these differences are the underpinning of LRC.

OP said he is going to work on his speed, and he will do well.

I'm not sure how someone decides that mileage is not the answer if they haven't done much. But I agree with your comment about highlighting differences. That said, I doubt the OP is going to get under 16:00 while he's in high school no matter what he does. It's a big jump and jumps of that size in a short time frame are unusual. But working on his speed will do almost nothing to get him there unless he's also developing the endurance to use that speed..

76chine wrote:

adsfdasfasfsafadfa wrote:

honestly I struggle to believe that many people can't break 63 in the 400m. I can't think of a single distance guy on my HS team that couldn't do that. Even the slow ones. Lots of guys who couldn't break 60 though. And very few running sub 56....

OP ran 2:14 for 800m, which is 63.5 average. He is much better than 63, but it seems a lot of HS runners don't have the expected progressions because of no spring track, then a haphazard summer, and many more problems this fall because they can't get out and run like normal students would.

2:14 is a 67 average. Most people run the 800m at 400m+4+s which would put him at 63. Very few people though have that type of speed endurance. Odds are he his closer to a 61....

Few distance guys have any clue of what thier 400m PR would be. Nobody runs one in remotely peak shape. They run a 63 at the end of a workout after cranking out a bunch of repeats and call it a PR. It is a like running. 4x1 mile and calling the fastest one your mile PR...

67 average...thanks.

Was thinking more like 33.5 for 200m average...

I think that it is possible, but quite hard

It seems that 76chine's advice is working well. Just tripled today and was close to all my PRs (which have improved this season).

Sub 4:50 is bound to happen. I was on pace for 4:45 in the same race I got my PR (a week ago). I decided to take the lead and go really really fast on the third lap, which worked swimmingly until I got passed by 4 runners with 100 to go.

Looking forward to summer where I can more properly train under his principles. I still get out kicked often, but can continue an even harder pace than before.

Congrats! What are you planning to do this summer? I am interested in the training

STRONK wrote:

Congrats! What are you planning to do this summer? I am interested in the training

Thankfully it looks like things are opening up more so I'll get to do workouts with coaches and the team during the Summer. If that doesn't happen, I'll use this schedule (which might change). This is just a loose guideline, I like to do things as they come.

3 (easy) + 4-6

4-6

5x1200 with 6x200 soon after

4-6 (easy)

3 (easy) + 4-6

4-6

7x800 with 6x200 soon after

4-6 (easy)

3 (easy) + 4-6

4-6

4 tempo with 6x400 soon after

4-6 (easy)

3 (easy) + 4-6

4-6

16x400

4-6 (easy)

On runs without "easy" in parenthesis I'll run about 30-60 slower than tempo pace. On repeats I'll take longer rests than usually prescribed. On workout days I'll do short hill running with long rest, so it'll kind of be like tripling on some days (but not really). I might also add some basic body strength exercises.

The plan detailed comes out to about 40 miles per week, I don't count warm-ups.

If there's Summer training with the team though, I'll workout with them. Usually their Summer workouts aren't super hard or anything, so I can continue tailoring a few things to my needs (with coaches' advice).

I almost broke 16, I was just a few seconds away.