250,000 Americans have died from COVID

No lefty me wrote:

I am paying attention to science wrote:

Wrong. Harambe says she has 10 more years left.

Sure. Because *averaging* having ten years remaining...means that everyone had *exactly* ten years remaining. Sure.

You're either ignorant of what "average" means--which I consider unlikely, you're smarter than that--or you misunderstood Harambe's posts (also unlikely IMO but perhaps more plausible)...or you knew what he meant and just deliberately misrepresented him anyway, making you either a) a troll or b) A FVCKIN' LIAR.

About as ironic as him misleading his liberal minded friends who will repeat this 10 year BS.

I am paying attention to science wrote:

About as ironic as him misleading his liberal minded friends who will repeat this 10 year BS.

There are plenty of numerically-challenged people on the left--I deal with some of them practically every day. And if they suggest that *every* (or almost every) COVID death is someone who would have otherwise had ten more years of life...then they're just advertising their ignorance. WTH, lots of libs *are* ignorant of things like basic math and statistics.

But neither you nor anyone else has refuted Harambe's link that demonstrated ON AVERAGE those COVID dead would otherwise have had about ten more years' life expectancy. People in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (and a few who were younger) have been some of the dead; and the twenty or thirty or fifty years of additional life that some of them could have expected, balance out the year or three that a 99-year-old COVID victim might otherwise have looked forward to.

I think a good starting point would be if you can prove the pcr tests are a reliable source of diagnosis. If we start with fraudulent results then everything that follows is fraudulent.

We have been given plenty of worrying information regarding pcr tests.

The average age of covid death in the US is harder to find now than in past months but it was close to 80. I don't think anyone is arguing that outside of a year or so. That is the AVERAGE age. So if he is saying that the AVERAGE lost time is 10 years, that is suggesting that the AVERAGE covid victim should live to 90. If you're going to say, "well, no, an 80 year old isn't going to live for another 10 years, but a 65 year old would" then the average age of death would be lower than what it is.

I understand that a few 30 year olds have died with it, but they are far outweighed by octogenarians who have.

That 10 year study has been reputed over and over again yet you still try to pass it off. How they did the study is took the age people died at and assumed that the loss of life was the years the average person who reaches that age can expect to live. For example if you reach 80 on average most people who are currently 80 will live to 88 so an 80-year-old who dies of Covid loses 8 years of life expectancy.

The problem with that study is some people who reach 80 will live for 20 more years while others only live weeks. It all depends on your condition at that age. An 80 year old in an assisted care facility does not have the same life expectancy of as an independent active 80 year old with no health risks. The 10 year study which was not a scientific study did not account for the people dying of Covid's condition prior to getting Covid.

I'm not sure what the % is at this point but earlier in the pandemic over 80% of the dead had underlying conditions such as cancer, renal disease, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, ect. People with those conditions have nowhere near the same life expectancy as someone at the same age who is healthy. They are at high risk of death from a bevy of things including their underlying condition. When someone with terminal cancer dies with Covid it is very disingenious to put it in the Covid death category and pretend they had years of healthy life left if Covid did not get them.

The Unkle wrote:

voted out, pants out wrote:

[quote]The Unkle wrote:

Actually died with Covid....94% of whom had at least two other life threatening conditions.

With a median age of 82.

45% of whom were in nursing homes. Where the median life expectancy if five months.

How many of those 250k would still be alive if not for Covid?

Most of them judging by the YTD total death totals.

So 45% of them in nursing homes where the median life expectancy is five months. Add in the fact that 94% of them are quite ill even without Covid. And the median age is 82.

Yet you claim most of these people would still be alive.

How is that possible?

Maybe 100,000 of the 250,000 would still be alive (I'm probably being generous with that figure). Most of whom would continue to erode Medicare and social security for the next 5-10 years to the tune of $30,000 a year per individual. As sad as death is, it is a financial reality that the 250,000 deaths will save those programs about $7.5 Billion a year. People live way longer today than we do historically (people like to compare COVID deaths to Civil War Deaths, the problem with that is the average life expectancy during that era was mid 40s, not the low 80s, people died all the time from diseases back then, we just didn't bother to inventory them) because of high dollar drugs (we aren't taking better care of ourselves, in fact, quite the opposite is true. Never have people lived longer, duller, fatter lives than now). The government didn't cause it (other than the laid off Wuhan lab worker that released the virus on the world). Everyday human behavior caused it. There are simple ways to prevent it, and those that are concerned about it can take measures to avoid contracting it.

browski wrote:

The average age of covid death in the US is harder to find now than in past months but it was close to 80. I don't think anyone is arguing that outside of a year or so. That is the AVERAGE age. So if he is saying that the AVERAGE lost time is 10 years, that is suggesting that the AVERAGE covid victim should live to 90. If you're going to say, "well, no, an 80 year old isn't going to live for another 10 years, but a 65 year old would" then the average age of death would be lower than what it is.

I understand that a few 30 year olds have died with it, but they are far outweighed by octogenarians who have.

82.4 median age. Healthy 82 year olds have a life expectancy of 7 years. 45% of American deaths in nursing homes -- median life expectancy from admission in those place is five months. 94% of the deaths had at least 2 other life threatening conditions. The thirty somethings who died from this were mostly very sick folks who would not have lived another 40-50 years.

[quote]joedurt wrote:

Maybe 100,000 of the 250,000 would still be alive (I'm probably being generous with that figure).

Seems reasonable.....and probably most of those would have been gone by the end of 2021

Can someone please sticky this somewhere? I'm so tired of the 10 year 'study' that keeps getting thrown around. If you truly believe it 'following the science', then admit that study was not using good science.

Former uniformer wrote:

Don't even mention the war, you slimy coward. You would be cowering in your basement if there was one.

Always a pleasure to meet a real WWI veteran trolling on the internet.

joed1rt 2 wrote:

Nobody is committing fraud. The guidelines are just that broad. They basically say that anyone that had a positive COVID test can be considered a COVID death. Considering about 30% of the US population has likely already had this (based upon an IFR of 0.26%), that would mean roughly 2,340 of the 7,800 people that die on an average day in this country could be considered a COVID death.

This is false "joed1rt 2" (what is with all these deniers using multiple usernames?).

COVID is listed as the underlying cause on 92+% of death certificates involving COVID. It can only be listed there if it is the most underlying cause of death. It is fraud to knowingly write the cert. otherwise.

The "with COVID" talking point needs to go the way of HCQ, which everyone eventually got to embarrassed to keep pushing.

Also best estimates suggest ~15% of the USA has contracted COVID +- 5 % or so.

Did you want to lower those PCR cycles, eliminate those who were slaughtered in nursing homes due to policies, differentiate between those who die from and with, eliminate those who were listed but never even tested but "presumed" and on and on- any "Covid deaths" left?

But of course you don't do context- or even cursory research- only hysteria.

Hug your TV for me.

No lefty me wrote:

I am paying attention to science wrote:

Wrong. Harambe says she has 10 more years left.

Sure. Because *averaging* having ten years remaining...means that everyone had *exactly* ten years remaining. Sure.

You're either ignorant of what "average" means--which I consider unlikely, you're smarter than that--or you misunderstood Harambe's posts (also unlikely IMO but perhaps more plausible)...or you knew what he meant and just deliberately misrepresented him anyway, making you either a) a troll or b) A FVCKIN' LIAR.

Covid-deniers cannot think beyond 4 factor arithmetic. They think the whole world can be compressed to sums and squinting at excel charts some blogger made.

Innumeracy is rampant and this crisis has made it obvious.

This is the best data I can find re: years of life lost and comorbidity.

https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75

Upshot was accounting for comorbidities 11-13 years. If you have better studies or data please link

ummm....you realize there is a vaccine coming, right? ....and that delaying spread saves thousands of lives right?

The Unkle wrote:

voted out, pants out wrote:

[quote]The Unkle wrote:

Actually died with Covid....94% of whom had at least two other life threatening conditions.

With a median age of 82.

45% of whom were in nursing homes. Where the median life expectancy if five months.

How many of those 250k would still be alive if not for Covid?

Most of them judging by the YTD total death totals.

So 45% of them in nursing homes where the median life expectancy is five months. Add in the fact that 94% of them are quite ill even without Covid. And the median age is 82.

Yet you claim most of these people would still be alive.

How is that possible?

so you just don't understand basic math. ok.

if all these people were people who were going to die anyway.....then why have nearly an extra 300k people died this year?

you fail to understand basic logic.

The Unkle wrote:

[quote]voted out, pants out wrote:

[quote]The Unkle wrote:

Actually died with Covid....94% of whom had at least two other life threatening conditions.

Nearly 300k more people than expected have died this year.

So 250k Covid deaths resulted in 300k excess deaths?

Want to walk me thru the math on that one?

what don't you understand?

nearly 300k extra people have died this year.

do you not understand that?

joed1rt 2 wrote:

And you are blaming all of those 300,000 on COVID alone. A good chunk of those are tied to people overdosing, not seeking treatment for other ailments due to fear of contracting COVID, etc. Pull up excess deaths with / without COVID and you will find a lot cannot be directly tied to COVID (because lockdowns kill people too and will continue to kill long after COVID dissipates.

I never said all 300k were COVID deaths, did I?

But clearly, a rational person can see that the vast majority of them clearly are.

the timing of the deaths simply does not fit the curve of lock down deaths....why would the peak just a couple weeks into lockdown?

also, if you actually dug into the numbers you would realize that the increases in suicides, overdoses etc is hardly a fraction of the total. Suicided increased a few hundred a month....and deaths increased by more than 60,000.

I don't care why you think caused those deaths. if you want to think it's all lockdown deaths, go ahead.

it's just not a logical conclusion is all.

trashcan wrote:

This is the best data I can find re: years of life lost and comorbidity.

https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75

Upshot was accounting for comorbidities 11-13 years. If you have better studies or data please link

Thanks for this. At least this doesn't try to hide the long-term conditions like that other 'study'. However, as they admitted:

"However, although we had data for eleven common and important LTCs, we did not have markers of underlying disease severity among those who died. Severity of the underlying LTC has considerable impact on life expectancy28. Moreover, we had no data for rarer severe LTCs, which may nonetheless be common among those who die from COVID-19 at younger ages."

And:

"Also, we were not able to adjust our estimates for other factors and exposures (such as socioeconomic status, occupation, smoking, health behaviours) which would have given a more accurate representation of life-expectancy in the absence of COVID-19."

Considering obesity is a huge risk factor and isn't technically an LTC, not talking health behaviors into account seems like an oversight.