4 Minute Mile?

Torcutt25 wrote:

I just thought I’d let you guys know that I ran 9:15 two mile in a time trial a few weeks ago,

Now before everyone gets up in arms about this It was 15 degrees out and starting to snow (I hate New Hampshire)

I had a buddy of mine rabbit me for just the first 800, I went through the mile in 4:36 and came back in around 4:39 a

this was not done on the freshest of legs, but since then I’ve done a few workouts worth noting

2x2k 2x800, 6x400, 5:46,47, 2:09,10, 61,61,62,61,61,60

16x400 @2M 66.8 avg

10x800 @ 5k pace with 2:00 rest, I averaged 2:21 with my last two at 2:18 and 2:13.

7 mile tempo progression where I ran 5:30, 5:25, 5:22, 5:16, 5:09, 5:00, 4:59,

I felt really controlled in both of those workouts. Though these aren’t direct indications of being able to run a sub 4:00 mile it shows that I am getting into significantly better shape.

My mileage is up to 85 miles per week now and with long runs in the 16-17 mile range and I am prepping for another time trial in the next 2ish weeks, I am thinking of doing a 5k

my thoughts and opinions wrote:

Torcutt25 wrote:

Hey guys I’m currently training and wondering if its possible for me to get close to a sub 4 minute mile, I’m looking for any workouts/indicators for something like this

Currently my PBs are

50.9 400m

1:55 800m

4:13 Mile

9:15 two mile

15:12 5k Xc

All of these were run pre covid so almost two years ago, I did one time trial in early September at the start of my fall training block and went 9:19 for the two mile which was encouraging but because of covid its been hard to get time trials in. I feel like my fitness has increased significantly since I ran my mile/ 2 mile bests. Ive gone from running 50 Mpw to close to 90 mpw with long runs of 17 miles and 5-6 mile tempos at 5:10-5:20 avg. I haven’t done a lot of speed work I’ve always just had that natural speed, I still could knock out a 52ish 400 with ease.

let me know what you’re thoughts are

I believe you have potential to get close to 4:00. I think the focus on strength is definitely a good move. I know a number of sub-4:00 milers. Most of them have 48-50 400m speed (I know one guy who broke 4:00 with a 52 400m PR), which you have, but all of them had far better strength. Even the real speed athletes could run close to 8:00 for 3k and close to 14:00 for 5k. As long as you are consistent with strides it's really easy to maintain that kind of speed. Another piece of advice for maintaining speed would actually be to not run too fast (specifically on easy runs). It's no surprise that every person I know with real speed runs relatively slow on easy runs, and every person I know that runs easy runs too fast has no speed. So keeping it in the 6:30-7:00 range on your easy runs for now will help you. I like the mileage and tempo work you're doing, but I think you need to stay in touch with some faster stuff year round. In college I would occasionally do 200s or 400s a couple times over the summer, with plenty of rest, just to keep in touch with my speed. During the season we would do 400s a couple times (roughly 3k-5k pace with equal rest), and maybe one 200s workout (roughly 800-mile pace with 2-3 times the rest). At the very least, you should be doing fartleks, hill repeats, and the occasional VO2max workout (2-5 minute intervals at 95-100% of VO2max with equal rest). I also like replacing continuous tempos with lactate threshold repeats (1k-1600 repeats with 1 minute rest). For you that would be in the 5:00-5:10 range, if your mile gets into the 4:05 range you can start running those under 5:00 even. I think these workouts tend to help a lot for a miler, as opposed to the continuous tempos which do more for someone trying to run a fast 5k or 10k. My high school coach used to say your longest interval at any pace should be no longer than the distance you want to race (so a miler would never run farther than 1600 continuous in a workout).

I'm not sure if you can break 4:00. Your 400m speed is good enough, but you have a long way to go in the other events. Expected times for a sub-4:00 guy that's aerobically developed would be:

50

1:50

3:42/4:00 (obviously)

8:00

14:00

Minimum I would expect:

52

1:52

3:42/4:00 (obviously)

8:15

14:30

You currently have only one of these minimum times, and you're quite bit off the 3k and 5k requirements. That said, you seem to be much fitter now, and if you can run a 5k in under 14:30 on this kind of aerobic training, you might have a shot. I would follow the advice I gave above, and also time trial a 3k/2-mile and 5k at some point. If you show significant improvement at those distances from all this aerobic training (sub-9:00 2-mile maybe) then you should have a good shot to break 4:00. If you don't PR by much, it probably isn't going to happen. Just my advice.

bitcoin dealer wrote:

my thoughts and opinions wrote:

I believe you have potential to get close to 4:00. I think the focus on strength is definitely a good move. I know a number of sub-4:00 milers. Most of them have 48-50 400m speed (I know one guy who broke 4:00 with a 52 400m PR), which you have, but all of them had far better strength. Even the real speed athletes could run close to 8:00 for 3k and close to 14:00 for 5k. As long as you are consistent with strides it's really easy to maintain that kind of speed. Another piece of advice for maintaining speed would actually be to not run too fast (specifically on easy runs). It's no surprise that every person I know with real speed runs relatively slow on easy runs, and every person I know that runs easy runs too fast has no speed. So keeping it in the 6:30-7:00 range on your easy runs for now will help you. I like the mileage and tempo work you're doing, but I think you need to stay in touch with some faster stuff year round. In college I would occasionally do 200s or 400s a couple times over the summer, with plenty of rest, just to keep in touch with my speed. During the season we would do 400s a couple times (roughly 3k-5k pace with equal rest), and maybe one 200s workout (roughly 800-mile pace with 2-3 times the rest). At the very least, you should be doing fartleks, hill repeats, and the occasional VO2max workout (2-5 minute intervals at 95-100% of VO2max with equal rest). I also like replacing continuous tempos with lactate threshold repeats (1k-1600 repeats with 1 minute rest). For you that would be in the 5:00-5:10 range, if your mile gets into the 4:05 range you can start running those under 5:00 even. I think these workouts tend to help a lot for a miler, as opposed to the continuous tempos which do more for someone trying to run a fast 5k or 10k. My high school coach used to say your longest interval at any pace should be no longer than the distance you want to race (so a miler would never run farther than 1600 continuous in a workout).

I'm not sure if you can break 4:00. Your 400m speed is good enough, but you have a long way to go in the other events. Expected times for a sub-4:00 guy that's aerobically developed would be:

50

1:50

3:42/4:00 (obviously)

8:00

14:00

Minimum I would expect:

52

1:52

3:42/4:00 (obviously)

8:15

14:30

You currently have only one of these minimum times, and you're quite bit off the 3k and 5k requirements. That said, you seem to be much fitter now, and if you can run a 5k in under 14:30 on this kind of aerobic training, you might have a shot. I would follow the advice I gave above, and also time trial a 3k/2-mile and 5k at some point. If you show significant improvement at those distances from all this aerobic training (sub-9:00 2-mile maybe) then you should have a good shot to break 4:00. If you don't PR by much, it probably isn't going to happen. Just my advice.

I ran 3:44 for 1500 with 8:40 3k and 15:32 5k PR.

ERAB wrote:

Torcutt25 wrote:

I just thought I’d let you guys know that I ran 9:15 two mile in a time trial a few weeks ago,

Now before everyone gets up in arms about this It was 15 degrees out and starting to snow (I hate New Hampshire)

I had a buddy of mine rabbit me for just the first 800, I went through the mile in 4:36 and came back in around 4:39 a

this was not done on the freshest of legs, but since then I’ve done a few workouts worth noting

2x2k 2x800, 6x400, 5:46,47, 2:09,10, 61,61,62,61,61,60

16x400 @2M 66.8 avg

10x800 @ 5k pace with 2:00 rest, I averaged 2:21 with my last two at 2:18 and 2:13.

7 mile tempo progression where I ran 5:30, 5:25, 5:22, 5:16, 5:09, 5:00, 4:59,

I felt really controlled in both of those workouts. Though these aren’t direct indications of being able to run a sub 4:00 mile it shows that I am getting into significantly better shape.

My mileage is up to 85 miles per week now and with long runs in the 16-17 mile range and I am prepping for another time trial in the next 2ish weeks, I am thinking of doing a 5k

It will be a fast 5k,, if you race. I'd try to find a fairly flat course where there usually isn't much wind, or TT on one of the CC courses.

Push the 1st mile a bit, you can handle it and still finish great. I ran a 10k in worse shape than you are by running 9:20 at 2 miles, 14:08 at 3 miles, 18:50 at 4 miles and cruised in for a 30:12. If I kept pushing, I would have been 29:30 or so, but I don't care much about 10k. It was a flat course, no wind.

Keep up your current focus and it should be okay until warmer weather comes.

:Lately, I've been running more, as I found a Peg-Assist that allows me to run without pain until surgery.

I'm running pretty fast again, and have some nice hilly trails around me so that I can power up the hills to maintain my 800m-type form and speed, without having to do the entire run at a fast pace.

Would limiting to 65-70 mpw be best for your goals right now? Increased mileage is a siren that even Ulysses would have to lash himself to the mast to resist.