Jonathan Gault is (rightly) full of praise for Elijah Manangoi - a guy who just got banned for 2 years

The good thing is that the dirty Kenyan cheater is out of the Olympics and probably done for good.

He can try spin it to appear innocent, who only the ignorant and naive will believe, but he was clearly dodging testers.

trollism wrote:

rule readerr wrote:

You say it is not a court case but what is happening is that the cases are being run like court cases.

Twenty years ago a case was done and dusted in a month. The first hearing was called an appeal and no disclosure of evidence.

All getting too complicated for Wada, or rather too expensive.

We have noted the £ 13 million award against wada from a soccer player.

This is a comedy thread, because you've got two guys who both love dopers, but they constantly argue with each other.

They both think that whereabouts failures don't indicate doping, but they seem to be getting all upset with each other over the fine details of the rules.

It's beyond parody.

The devil is in the detail of the rules.

But agree about the parody.

I am not pro doper but wonder if the rules have become a burden that will kill the sport whilst making a massive doping control industry.

Don’t think whereabouts failure indicates doping but something less along the suspicious continuum.

a dirt cheat wrote:

The good thing is that the dirty Kenyan cheater is out of the Olympics and probably done for good.

He can try spin it to appear innocent, who only the ignorant and naive will believe, but he was clearly dodging testers.

Simpleton !

if you have been in the Nairobi morning traffic you can buy his second excuse. but the first one of not being able to change the 8-9 , the experts can brief us

Harry Larubi wrote:

if you have been in the Nairobi morning traffic you can buy his second excuse. but the first one of not being able to change the 8-9 , the experts can brief us

This is the first indication the traffic jam at 5. 00 may have merit.

Are you sure there would be a real snarl up ?

rekrunner wrote:

xeroxero wrote:

Now you are simply LYING. You have lost the argument. I would have expected better of you. DISAPPOINTING!

You should expect from me to say exactly what can be concluded from the evidence, and what cannot.

There is no lie. No evidence connects Manangoi to any banned substances.

It would be a lie to suggest otherwise.

If you went to a court with your circumstantial evidence, you would not get a murder conviction, but you would get an outright dismissal and a stern admonishment from the judge.

The lie is that you are asserting that Manangoi being an athlete is similar circumstantial evidence of his guilt as his whereabouts violations. Please try to be more honest.

rule readerr wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

If you google "wada adrv report", you will quickly find annual reports.

Go to Table 2 on page 35-36, and you can see athletes from 39 countries:

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2017_adrv_report.pdf

Oh dear !

What a school boy error!

The report does not state one thing that you said it did.

But good try, but I am far to competent than you assume.

Why the silence ?

Any apology for trying to get away with misleading ?

trollism wrote:

Is there a doper you won't defend?

Do you actually support these cheats more once they get busted?

Is Manangoi a doper? He received a 2-year ban for 3 missed tests. I thought that sanction was appropriate given the circumstances.

There was no mention of any involvement of banned substances.

casual obsever wrote:

trollism wrote:

Do you actually support these cheats more once they get busted?

Are you new here? Of course he does, from Baumann to Decker to Kiprop to Jeptoo to Salazar.

There are facts we know about Baumann and Decker and Kiprop and Jeptoo and Salazar.

Then there are things that are alleged, which often far exceed the known facts.

I often point out which is which, while not excusing any intentional doping.

rule readerr wrote:

rule readerr wrote:

Oh dear !

What a school boy error!

The report does not state one thing that you said it did.

But good try, but I am far to competent than you assume.

Why the silence ?

Any apology for trying to get away with misleading ?

Can you be more specific?

I stand by my original statement "If you look at official WADA reports, you will find that runners all over the world are getting caught all the time."

I will offer one correction. The 2017 report shows athletes from 48 countries. I said 39 -- that was wrong.

If you dig around the site, you can find reports back to 2013.

........ wrote:

The lie is that you are asserting that Manangoi being an athlete is similar circumstantial evidence of his guilt as his whereabouts violations. Please try to be more honest.

Manangoi is guilty -- of whereabouts failures. The definition of whereabouts failures do not involve banned substances. That is an honest conclusion.

rekrunner wrote:

........ wrote:

The lie is that you are asserting that Manangoi being an athlete is similar circumstantial evidence of his guilt as his whereabouts violations. Please try to be more honest.

Manangoi is guilty -- of whereabouts failures. The definition of whereabouts failures do not involve banned substances. That is an honest conclusion.

What is the point here? Why does anyone care about his whereabouts? You damn well know why. Stop playing the fool.

The dude skipped drug tests in country rife with drug cheats in distance running. You can bet that Kiprop would rather a two year ban for missing tests rather than getting popped for EPO. Manangoi got off easy and he knows it.

This is an example of a drug cheat you should be praising for owning up, not Manangoi, who maintains his innocence of doping, and no doubt when he returns will be boasting of breaking 3:25 at Monaco.

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20806693/kisorio-suggests-kenyan-doping-is-widespread/

zxczxzxcv wrote:

This is an example of a drug cheat you should be praising for owning up, not Manangoi, who maintains his innocence of doping, and no doubt when he returns will be boasting of breaking 3:25 at Monaco.

They are the same:

- Kisorio was busted for steroids and admitted he did it, and accepted the blame, just like Manangoi, and unlike Coleman

........ wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Manangoi is guilty -- of whereabouts failures. The definition of whereabouts failures do not involve banned substances. That is an honest conclusion.

What is the point here? Why does anyone care about his whereabouts? You damn well know why. Stop playing the fool.

The point is that I was accused of being dishonest, while I was being honest and truthful.

I'm not so interested in what other people care about, per se, but just point out that the specific "drug cheat" allegation is without any specific basis in fact, lacking even circumstantial evidence -- this inference could be considered dishonest.

Apparently "rojo" and "gault" agreed with that and changed their graphic to be more honest.

You can say people are not interested, but we are on the 6th page of a whereabouts thread, and it was not the only thread on Manangoi.

The whereabouts failures are the only specific facts on Manangoi here in evidence.

rekrunner wrote:

zxczxzxcv wrote:

This is an example of a drug cheat you should be praising for owning up, not Manangoi, who maintains his innocence of doping, and no doubt when he returns will be boasting of breaking 3:25 at Monaco.

They are the same:

- Kisorio was busted for steroids and admitted he did it, and accepted the blame, just like Manangoi, and unlike Coleman

You're assuming that Manangoi did miss his tests 'innocently', which is not what the AIU concluded, and is contrary to reasoning behind the three missed whereabouts rule.

If the two cases were the same, Kisorio would have dodged his tests, received a two year ban, accepted the blame for missing his tests, and had doping apologists like you here defending him against accusations of doping, and Jonathan Gault praising him.

Instead, he not only accepted his guilt of doping, but admitted that doping was widespread in Kenya - something that was still not clear back then (because of lack of testing), but at 100+ Kenyan positives later is now (aside from a few shills and apologists here on LetsDope).

Coevett wrote:

You're assuming that Manangoi did miss his tests 'innocently', which is not what the AIU concluded, and is contrary to reasoning behind the three missed whereabouts rule.

If the two cases were the same, Kisorio would have dodged his tests, received a two year ban, accepted the blame for missing his tests, and had doping apologists like you here defending him against accusations of doping, and Jonathan Gault praising him.

Instead, he not only accepted his guilt of doping, but admitted that doping was widespread in Kenya - something that was still not clear back then (because of lack of testing), but at 100+ Kenyan positives later is now (aside from a few shills and apologists here on LetsDope).

I've assumed nothing. On the contrary, I've rejected assumptions lacking any specific basis in fact or evidence.

I have only stated what the facts are, and what is not fact.

The AIU made no conclusions about the intent and motivation for the missed tests, and did not infer that the missed tests were intentional, nor did they infer the involvement of any banned substances.

Manangoi and Kisiorio are the same in the sense that they both accepted their guilt for the offense for which they were busted, unlike Coleman, who blamed the system.

In fact, Manangoi accepted the blame completely, not pointing fingers at others, whereas Kisorio shared the blame by also pointing fingers at doctors.

This is deserving of praise. I note that Kirsorio did not confess to other offenses for which he was not busted.

rekrunner wrote:

rule readerr wrote:

Why the silence ?

Any apology for trying to get away with misleading ?

Can you be more specific?

I stand by my original statement "If you look at official WADA reports, you will find that runners all over the world are getting caught all the time."

I will offer one correction. The 2017 report shows athletes from 48 countries. I said 39 -- that was wrong.

If you dig around the site, you can find reports back to 2013.

Wada site says athletes, which inc all sportspeople, and not runners.