Two questions about Biden's student loan plan

Quasi-Boom wrote:

This is an absolute arbitrary windfall to some select group of people who likely don't even "need" it anywhere near as much as others (homeless people, anyone?).

If your concern is getting support to those that need it, there's plenty to go around. We could do loan forgiveness, homeless support, and 'go green' all at the same time. We give trillions to corporations and the military complex like it's nothing. Haven't seen you complaining about that cash dump on these boards though...

Even further, why wait for big brother? YOU can volunteer your own time and resources for the homeless. Alas, in reality, you don't want to help anyone. You just don't like others receiving support because you aren't. Sad.

macdaddy OG wrote:

Quasi-Boom wrote:

This is an absolute arbitrary windfall to some select group of people who likely don't even "need" it anywhere near as much as others (homeless people, anyone?).

If your concern is getting support to those that need it, there's plenty to go around. We could do loan forgiveness, homeless support, and 'go green' all at the same time. We give trillions to corporations and the military complex like it's nothing. Haven't seen you complaining about that cash dump on these boards though...

Even further, why wait for big brother? YOU can volunteer your own time and resources for the homeless. Alas, in reality, you don't want to help anyone. You just don't like others receiving support because you aren't. Sad.

We don't give trillions to corporations, we take trillions away from corporations. Easy mistake to make.

name check wrote:

Joe jackpot wrote:

I have to be honest here.

I have about 20k left in student loans from 12 years ago. I arguably made enough income to have paid it off in full in about 7 years, but instead often paid the minimum amount and kept on living my life. Looks like Biden’s plan will wipe out half (10k) of what I have left. So I guess I can thank him for 2 vacations I took in the last 5 years instead of paying more down on those loans. I always figured I’d just keep paying small amounts until they were gone and/or legislation passed to forgive them.

The irony is I didn’t vote for Biden either.

Except the joke is on you, you will pay a lot more than the 10k he saved you in ADDITIONAL TAXES that he adds.

He said during the debates he wouldn’t raise taxes on households making under 400k. I suspect that was a lie though. But if he’s true to his word, I don’t make that much and even when my wife goes back to work, it’s unlikely we’d ever hit that mark

CarbonFiberJoe wrote:

sparky polastry wrote:

Not sure the details, but whatever they are I’m sure Mitch will be very receptive!

The "details" are he does it by executive fiat and there's nothing the legislature can do about it. Isn't our system of government great?

Plenty of Trump's executive fiat's were torpedoed in democratic federal court districts, rendering Trump's fiat's unimplementable. How come this tactic wouldn't work on Biden's executive fiat?

Why is it surprising to people that bailouts are the future when they have been part of our consumer based capitalism for years now?

If you paid off your college by working through summers and didn’t take on any loan debt, but you think are a “victim” here, I would ask you if your 401k has gone up in the last decade. Consumer spending drives our economy and when college grads don’t pay their loans back and/or use the loan money to buy things, they are driving company profits and stock prices higher. This has been our economic cycle for decades, whether it’s enhanced with credit cards or subprime mortgages. Our economy relies on people spending money they don’t have.

I really grew to understand why America is the way it is when our large corporate company hired a new CEO . This guy came in, surrounded himself with yes-men who wouldn’t question him and started making acquisitions right and left. The acquisitions were mostly terrible long term business decisions, but every time he made one, it boosted revenue for the immediate term and kept shareholders happy and his own salary and bonus strong. After 3 years of this behavior, though, the company stock is on a downward spiral and now it’s a complete mess.

This is America. What can I do *right now* to increase consumer spending or boost profits and prop up the share value before the next earnings release? This sentiment runs from the very top (CEOs...etc) to the very bottom (store clerk pushing a store credit card on you at the checkout line) of our business structure.

It is a house of cards, truly.

Giving a trillion dollars to affluent white people...what could possibly go wrong.

runnER/DR wrote:

Giving a trillion dollars to affluent white people...what could possibly go wrong.

Yes. Everyone who took out LOANS were white, and super affluent. Makes total sense, race-baiter.

Brojos, how many LOANS did you take out?

Joe jackpot wrote:

Consumer spending drives our economy and when college grads don’t pay their loans back and/or use the loan money to buy things, they are driving INFLATION higher.

Fixed.

Tatar wrote:

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Why should middle-class white-collar debt be repaid but credit card debt held by blue-collar Americans without college degrees not be forgiven?

Is that how you view knowledge and education then? Akin to shopping and putting it on a credit card?

No, I got an engineering degree at a very good school for a reasonable price, that was a good investment. For kids going to school to get a liberal arts major and spend 4 years drinking beer at frat parties, it is a total waste of money. You have no idea what other Americans' debt was accrued for. Some of it was wasted on frivolous expenditures. Some of it was likely healthcare, groceries, rent, or utilities. It is not the government's job and they do not have the constitutional power to decide whose debt is something the public should pick up the tab for and who should have to pay back their debts. The government has no business in the public lending or debt forgiveness business.

No. You haven't been listening. My best friend socked money away in a 401k for the pat 5 years after college while I paid off my student loans. I paid off the $50k while he put the $50k in his 401k which has increased in value to $75k. So now you want his loans forgiven and he can keep his 401k but I will have nothing because I paid my debt. Freeloaders should not be rewarded. Responsible behavior should be rewarded or we will see even more irresponsible behavior.

This is a good post. I see posts all over the place about how all student loans should be forgiven because college degrees are worthless, but relatively few that acknowledge that your choice of degree matters and a large responsibility falls on the student to pick one that will get them a decent paying job. Anyone complaining about having a worthless degree that decided to major in English or Philosophy sounds real silly to me

You would get nothing back. Those that pay subsidize those that do not. Just like Obamacare and other socialist constructs. Sucks for you that you actually went to college and got a meaningful degree that would allow you to pay for the cost of your education. You should feel patriotic that you get to pay higher taxes so that the Starbucks Barista with a Philosophy degree from a private school can have his education payed off.

versy tile wrote:

No. You haven't been listening. My best friend socked money away in a 401k for the pat 5 years after college while I paid off my student loans. I paid off the $50k while he put the $50k in his 401k which has increased in value to $75k. So now you want his loans forgiven and he can keep his 401k but I will have nothing because I paid my debt. Freeloaders should not be rewarded. Responsible behavior should be rewarded or we will see even more irresponsible behavior.

You sound like a poor investor. You are calling yourself responsible for paying down low interest loans and robbing yourself of higher interest in the market, the contributions to which are most likely matched by your employer?

Your friend is definitely smarter than you. I'm sorry you made the mistake of paying down your loans. Nobody would recommend that unless you have already maxed your IRAs and paid down all of your other high interest debt first. You did none of that. Crack open a Dave Ramsey book ffs.

Okay if you want to play games, my friend and I graduated with $50k in student loan debt. We both fully funded our 401ks over the past 5 years. I paid off my student loans while he bought a new luxury car for $50k. He now has a new car worth $50k that is paid off and I have nothing. He has $50k in student loan debt that you think the Government should forgive. Dave Ramsey would have told him that he is a fool for buying an expensive car and would have told me that I was doing the smart thing to pay off debt instead. Dave Ramsey just became a fool.

Of course I don't know what people use their credit cards for but they are designed for short-term spending. If people are accruing debt for utilities or health then yes, there is an argument for debt forgiveness that can be made.

Education and knowledge shouldn't be viewed as investments. It's only recently that degrees have been used to prepare for employment. Taken to it's logical conclusion we should all do MBAs which future generations will consider obsolete too.

English, philosophy, history are all worthwhile subjects. Who should study them, if the students majoring are getting worthless degrees? And the logic doesn't work - if they are useless - why are people getting into debt to do them?

They are worthless. There are ways to learn those things without going tens of thousands of dollars in debt. The push for more college for everyone has led to companies requiring degrees for jobs that should have no degree requirements. The myth of this requirement for higher education has also been perpetrated by the left because of the use of the University system is the best tool they have to indoctrinate malleable young minds in Liberal ideals. 5% of social science professors identify as Conservative, 18% identify as Marxist!!!! What does that tell you about acadamia?

When our country had the highest GDP growth closer to 20% went to college. There was much lower poverty rates and wage growth was much higher. Getting closer to 50% of individuals college-educated has not benefited society and a college degree is not something everyone should get. It is easy to trick a high school kid into thinking this massive loan is a good idea when it isn't.

macdaddy OG wrote:

Quasi-Boom wrote:

This is an absolute arbitrary windfall to some select group of people who likely don't even "need" it anywhere near as much as others (homeless people, anyone?).

If your concern is getting support to those that need it, there's plenty to go around. We could do loan forgiveness, homeless support, and 'go green' all at the same time. We give trillions to corporations and the military complex like it's nothing. Haven't seen you complaining about that cash dump on these boards though...

Even further, why wait for big brother? YOU can volunteer your own time and resources for the homeless. Alas, in reality, you don't want to help anyone. You just don't like others receiving support because you aren't. Sad.

Oooh, zippy reply.

You got it mostly wrong about what I was saying, or maybe didn't comprehend it. This is what's referred to as a windfall, and its an arbitrary and capricious one, with a weak premise to begin with. Just conjure up any crazy government hand-out you want, and it will not be much different than this. Declare that anyone who didn't withhold enough federal taxes last year gets the amount due waived. Declare that anyone who failed to maximize their 401(K) over the last 10 years, gets the entire the entire shortage subsidized (with interest, of course). Declare anyone who bought a house in a known high flood area gets their mortgage paid off. Declare that anyone living near a federal highway gets their car loans paid off. If anyone points out these things are like the federal government sending out Publisher's Clearing House sweepstakes in the mail, just cut and paste your trite post as a response.

I am leaning democrat, but I tend to agree that forgiving part of a student loan is not really a solution.

Tuitions at US universities are beyond crazy and generally they do not reflect the quality of the education.

As other pointed out, most of the problem arises because loans are not-dischargeable, hence there is not control over who gets the loan and for what. If anybody can get a loan for any sum of money. then universities feel free to charge whatever they want and tuitions skyrocket.

Two (relatively) easy solutions: make loans dischargeable (as any other loan) and heavily subsidize state universities to keep tuitions low and quality of teaching high so that they can compete with private institutions, driving down tuition costs. Once these safeguards are in place, then it may make sense to consider a once-off measure to erase some/all of the outstanding debt for people that is really struggling. Doing it in isolation would only encourage further raising tuitions as there will be an expectation that some fo the debt may be eventually forgiven.

ryan evans wrote:

runnER/DR wrote:

Giving a trillion dollars to affluent white people...what could possibly go wrong.

Yes. Everyone who took out LOANS were white, and super affluent. Makes total sense, race-baiter.

Brojos, how many LOANS did you take out?

I didn't say everyone. But the demographic this benefits is disproportionately white, and completely affluent. Most student loan debt is from grad school, especially those with large debt loads.

You should take. second and reflect why so many people would support an orange faced bumbling idiot for president. It's largely because huge swaths of working class America are being left behind. Enormous numbers of blue collar jobs have been wiped out by globalization. These are the people who support Trump. If you want another Trump to come along in 4 years(maybe someone that isn't a disorganized narcissist next time), you should support policy that helps those that have been left behind.

I have a ton of student loan debt. I graduated with over $400K. But I'm wealthy. I have job security. I have a highly valued skill set. It sucks to pay $6K in student loans every single month...none of which is eligible for a tax write off. But I'm not the one that needs help. I'll be fine.

The blue collar people making $50K a year working their A** off look at a policy like this, and they head right for a populist like Trump. This is an elitist policy that favors the affluent(which are predominantly white).

Making college more affordable is a completely different policy. I would support that. It would encourage the poor to go to college. Better ROI. But going back in time and erasing rich people's debt is terrible policy that ponders almost completely to the coastal elite.