Race should be irrelevant? I don't believe you. Do you support any affirmative action? Are you okay with the Ivies discriminating based on race? Are you okay with the NFL requiring that minority coaches be interviewed?
Race should be irrelevant? I don't believe you. Do you support any affirmative action? Are you okay with the Ivies discriminating based on race? Are you okay with the NFL requiring that minority coaches be interviewed?
Coach of womanly wrote:
Race should be irrelevant? I don't believe you. Do you support any affirmative action? Are you okay with the Ivies discriminating based on race? Are you okay with the NFL requiring that minority coaches be interviewed?
This isn't an affirmative action thread but no, not really. I'd prefer we didn't have to do that.
The problems of inequality are wider than college admission. Tutors will only admit on grades but this ignores the circumstances those grades were achieved in. Inequality could be addressed by education but how can they get that education if the HS in black neighborhoods are below standard.
I'd rather we were much further ahead in tackling injustice than using affirmative action but here we are.
Tatar wrote:
This isn't an affirmative action thread but no, not really. I'd prefer we didn't have to do that.
The problems of inequality are wider than college admission. Tutors will only admit on grades but this ignores the circumstances those grades were achieved in. Inequality could be addressed by education but how can they get that education if the HS in black neighborhoods are below standard.
I'd rather we were much further ahead in tackling injustice than using affirmative action but here we are.
Those communities don't value education and thus, don't strive to be educated. It's no secret the recipe for a successful career is a legitimate college education and yet the top two career aspirations among young black men are still rap artist and NFL player. That's a choice.
Why should people who don't value education be given circumstancial concessions when evaluated on grades? I don't get circumstantial concessions when I'm at an NFL open tryout. I either can run a 4.4 40 and 36 inch vertical jump or I can't. Talk about injustice.
You're genuinely ignorant.
ryan evans wrote:
Tatar wrote:
This isn't an affirmative action thread but no, not really. I'd prefer we didn't have to do that.
The problems of inequality are wider than college admission. Tutors will only admit on grades but this ignores the circumstances those grades were achieved in. Inequality could be addressed by education but how can they get that education if the HS in black neighborhoods are below standard.
I'd rather we were much further ahead in tackling injustice than using affirmative action but here we are.
Those communities don't value education and thus, don't strive to be educated. It's no secret the recipe for a successful career is a legitimate college education and yet the top two career aspirations among young black men are still rap artist and NFL player. That's a choice.
Why should people who don't value education be given circumstancial concessions when evaluated on grades? I don't get circumstantial concessions when I'm at an NFL open tryout. I either can run a 4.4 40 and 36 inch vertical jump or I can't. Talk about injustice.
Why do you say those communities don't value education whereas other's do? Why are whites immune from the distraction of being a rap artist? Is it something to do with their heritage?
Tatar wrote:
ryan evans wrote:
Those communities don't value education and thus, don't strive to be educated. It's no secret the recipe for a successful career is a legitimate college education and yet the top two career aspirations among young black men are still rap artist and NFL player. That's a choice.
Why should people who don't value education be given circumstancial concessions when evaluated on grades? I don't get circumstantial concessions when I'm at an NFL open tryout. I either can run a 4.4 40 and 36 inch vertical jump or I can't. Talk about injustice.
Why do you say those communities don't value education whereas other's do? Why are whites immune from the distraction of being a rap artist? Is it something to do with their heritage?
Parenting. Lack of parenting. Lack of appropriate role models.
Any black leader who speaks up about lack of parenting and education in the black community is ostracized and called an Uncle Tom. If you don't want to hear the truth and face reality, you should be happy with your consolation prize. You earned it.
So maybe providing them with world class education might be a way to create better role models and aspiration. Anyway it's not what I came to this thread to discuss. Feel free to comment on the merits of my actual post however:
Tatar wrote:
The patriarchy has always used biology to justify oppression that's why its misguided.
Ask your former sports teachers and they might have tried to justify your limited options on the grounds women have certain innate biological characteristics which make them more or less suited to certain things. You are what your biology says you are, and should look and act according to what we associate with feminine or masculine. Particularly for women these are oppressive, yes?
These are the same arguments used to justify trans exclusion. You should attack these ideas. Discussing 'criteria' to be a woman is the problem - you set stereotypes which inevitably will restrict. Do you think people on this thread who usually oppose feminism are feminists? No, they only claim to be in this one instance because trans people disrupt their idea of what women are.
I'm sure every sexist will be pleased to hear how fundamental motherhood is to womanhood, after all this is what they've been saying for years. You even mention childbirth being central to a woman's experience and then make a joke about dated perceptions of women having to have children!
Trans rights are women's rights. Feminists should say sex should be irrelevant in the same way anti-racists say race should be irrelevant.
Tatar wrote:
well actually wrote:
Just want to point out another liberal attacking the source rather than the argument. Liberals do this because they have no argument.
She makes the standard anti-trans and faux-feminist argument we've heard before.
We've explained before how fighting over how we should define women and especially reducing girls/women to their bodies is misguided.
She repeatedly says 'real girls' and says the 'boys said they were trans' implying they were pretending.
What do you want? There's no compromise the women in the video would accept so what are we to do?
Because it is absolutely insane to have boys competing against girl. It’s science as many liberals like to say when it suites their argument.
Tatar, you should like a lunatic.
Shouldn’t there be no separation of sports then? Just all guys and girls compete on the same team for every sport?
Who can they sue?
If a man (that dresses up like a women) is awarded a scholarship to run on a women's team, who can stop that? If you fielded a full team of xdressing men on the women's side, can this be addressed under title ix?
briswiss wrote:
Tatar, you should like a lunatic.
Shouldn’t there be no separation of sports then? Just all guys and girls compete on the same team for every sport?
It would be one way to deal with it. No more women's 800m, just THE 800m etc. Sure would make track meets move along a lot faster.
This is just so crazy to watch. We celebrate the women that have done so much to make this sport great to move the sport forward for all women, the Joan Benoits, Grete Waitz, etc.. then turn around and say "but there really is no such thing as a woman."
briswiss wrote:
Tatar, you should like a lunatic.
Shouldn’t there be no separation of sports then? Just all guys and girls compete on the same team for every sport?
Well that's one suggestion and does happen but no. People have also suggested weight and height categories or handicaps but this isn't a great solution either.
My suggestion is to recognize whatever categories we use, they'll always be exceptions and contradictions. The men's/women's division in track doesn't need changing. Letting all women (including trans women) compete in the women's is the simplest solution. And I mean people who are trans or intersex.
too true wrote:
well actually wrote:
Just want to point out another liberal attacking the source rather than the argument. Liberals do this because they have no argument.
QFE
Double QFE.
Liberalism is a mental disorder that needs more attention and awareness.
100% agree with the points made in the video.
Tatar wrote:
briswiss wrote:
Tatar, you should like a lunatic.
Shouldn’t there be no separation of sports then? Just all guys and girls compete on the same team for every sport?
Well that's one suggestion and does happen but no. People have also suggested weight and height categories or handicaps but this isn't a great solution either.
My suggestion is to recognize whatever categories we use, they'll always be exceptions and contradictions. The men's/women's division in track doesn't need changing. Letting all women (including trans women) compete in the women's is the simplest solution. And I mean people who are trans or intersex.
If you have testicles, you inherently have an advantage over someone without testicles that is exactly the same other than not having testicles. If you have testicles, you should not be completing in sports with people without testicles if there is an option. End of story.
briswiss wrote:
Tatar wrote:
Well that's one suggestion and does happen but no. People have also suggested weight and height categories or handicaps but this isn't a great solution either.
My suggestion is to recognize whatever categories we use, they'll always be exceptions and contradictions. The men's/women's division in track doesn't need changing. Letting all women (including trans women) compete in the women's is the simplest solution. And I mean people who are trans or intersex.
If you have testicles, you inherently have an advantage over someone without testicles that is exactly the same other than not having testicles. If you have testicles, you should not be completing in sports with people without testicles if there is an option. End of story.
Can we change the classes from male/female to Testes/Non-Testes then? That seems like it would fix everything.
Every athlete would have to go an invasive inspection before competing to check for presence of testes or underdeveloped testes.
I’m sure Alberto would happily volunteer to do the “inspections”.
EZ10Miler wrote:
briswiss wrote:
Tatar, you should like a lunatic.
Shouldn’t there be no separation of sports then? Just all guys and girls compete on the same team for every sport?
It would be one way to deal with it. No more women's 800m, just THE 800m etc. Sure would make track meets move along a lot faster.
This is just so crazy to watch. We celebrate the women that have done so much to make this sport great to move the sport forward for all women, the Joan Benoits, Grete Waitz, etc.. then turn around and say "but there really is no such thing as a woman."
At the end of the day, we're talking about GAMES here. Things to do for fun, at best, and distractions at worst. Not something that meaningfully advances human progress.
So women want everything equal - great - than no differentiation between the sexes - just one race - top 3 and then age groups. no female/male categories.
My cousin's son came out as trans last year. I always knew that he was not a cis gender male. He played flute in HS band and mostly hung out with girls. Back when he was in HS, LGBTQ rights were just starting to come to the forefront. Kids at his HS would harass any kid that came out as LGBTQ. He had to suppress his trans identity for years just out of fear of physical violence.
I recognize that biological boys who are trans and nonbinary gender people who have biological advantages competing against biological girls is not fair to girls. But excluding these people from sports is also not fair. The Prager U video is extremely bigoted. There are just a handful of trans athletes out there. They are no threat to women's athletics. We can find space for trans and nonbinary athletes in women's sports. We can have competition that protect biologically female athletes that also includes trans and nonbinary athletes. It takes some work and some compromises from both sides. But it can be done.