I don't understand the concept of slow base training and I think LSD is waste of time. Prove me wrong!

Tetherball wrote:

You ought to read the Hadd thread as it explains very clearly how slower running can increase mitochondria more effectively than faster running in base phase. More mitochondria will make your body more efficient so that the faster work (Hadd phase 2 for example) is more effective. As Hadd said, when you do phase 1 correctly you can't run as fast as you like, but you can run through walls. Add the requisite speed work and you will be in the best shape of your life

I would like to know how this is possible unless the volume of running was extremely high. Does Hadd explain his theory scientifically or are we just taking his word for it?

My friend does 3 months of base work every year, about 110 miles per week with nothing more than one weekly tempo run. His pace is about 8:15-8:30.

His PB’s are 28:07 for 10km and 61:25 for half marathon. He’s doing something right.

In high school I never ran any miles (excluding track intervals and races) faster than 8min pace and the average was 9 min pace for normal runs. The coach always said if you can't carry a full conversation, you're running too fast. I ended up running 15:10 at the Woodbridge State Meet course in CA. For those that don't know that's a full 5k. Then I went on to run 4:09 full mile with the same training. Sure, in today's world those times aren't great, but those used to be very strong times.

Then I went to college and was forced to run under 6 minute pace for normal runs and my 1500 PR ended up being 3:55 and 5k on the track barely budged to 14:44.

He is either lying about his training or his race times.

puddin' wrote:

PROOF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Snell

Snell was not proof of proper 800m training. Peter Snell won two 800m gold medals even though he logged high mileage. Copying Snell's 800m training set U.S. back, 800m. Training the way Snell trained is easier than the way a young S. Coe trained (when S. Coe trained as an 800m man). Some runners will seek the easier path. Most runners know it is easier to log an AM 5 mile run and and evening 5 mile run than AM 200m repeat workout followed up by an evening 300m repeat workout.

600yd/600m man wrote:

puddin' wrote:

PROOF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Snell

Snell was not proof of proper 800m training. Peter Snell won two 800m gold medals even though he logged high mileage. Copying Snell's 800m training set U.S. back, 800m. Training the way Snell trained is easier than the way a young S. Coe trained (when S. Coe trained as an 800m man). Some runners will seek the easier path. Most runners know it is easier to log an AM 5 mile run and and evening 5 mile run than AM 200m repeat workout followed up by an evening 300m repeat workout.

Are you claiming that Snell didn't do 200 and 300 repeats? During the track season Snell was doing 6 track workouts a week. Many of them were super intense and the only reason he could complete such workouts was that he prepared his body to take such pounding through building up a base during the winter.

600yd/600m man wrote:

puddin' wrote:

PROOF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Snell

Snell was not proof of proper 800m training. Peter Snell won two 800m gold medals even though he logged high mileage. Copying Snell's 800m training set U.S. back, 800m. Training the way Snell trained is easier than the way a young S. Coe trained (when S. Coe trained as an 800m man). Some runners will seek the easier path. Most runners know it is easier to log an AM 5 mile run and and evening 5 mile run than AM 200m repeat workout followed up by an evening 300m repeat workout.

Yet another clueless view of Snell’s training

I stated Lydiard-Snell 800m training was inferior 800m training.

otter wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Snell was not proof of proper 800m training. Peter Snell won two 800m gold medals even though he logged high mileage. Copying Snell's 800m training set U.S. back, 800m. Training the way Snell trained is easier than the way a young S. Coe trained (when S. Coe trained as an 800m man). Some runners will seek the easier path. Most runners know it is easier to log an AM 5 mile run and and evening 5 mile run than AM 200m repeat workout followed up by an evening 300m repeat workout.

Yet another clueless view of Snell’s training

Was that you Otter responding to me with two different handles?

600yd/600m man wrote:

Was that you Otter responding to me with two different handles?

What would be the purpose of that? There is no sense in showing a consensus for something factual. I don't know why so many on this board have Lydiard's training so backwards. Read one of his books, and then share an opinion whether you agree with it or not.

otter wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Was that you Otter responding to me with two different handles?

What would be the purpose of that? There is no sense in showing a consensus for something factual. I don't know why so many on this board have Lydiard's training so backwards. Read one of his books, and then share an opinion whether you agree with it or not.

I'm not familiar with Lydiard – could you summarize his concept?

As far as I have heard many think Lydiard advocated for long slow running when in fact he advocated high end aerobic training.

Just read the thread for yourself, Otter and come to your own conclusions.

Hadd was a scientist, by the way.

otter wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Was that you Otter responding to me with two different handles?

What would be the purpose of that? There is no sense in showing a consensus for something factual. I don't know why so many on this board have Lydiard's training so backwards. Read one of his books, and then share an opinion whether you agree with it or not.

Did that.

Lydiard's training for 800m athletes was not optimal. I do not know why fans of Lydiard are so dull. You Lydiard 800m fans do not want to consider that Snell would have raced 800m faster if Snell trained more in the manner of S Coe to circa 1982.

I started running just for fitness in my mid 30s and was running all my miles around 8 min pace. On a whim I ran a race and then would randomly run races every other week with no changes to my training and that fit me just below 19min. I then ended up running high 16s doing one tempo and one shorter workout per week and running 100miles/week. Any non workout day my runs were 7:30-8:00 pace.

I was off of running for several years and just came back and was running for six months about an hour and fifty mins a day with all miles around 9-9:30 pace (in a park and I weigh more now) . When my friends met me to run a while ago I was able to run 5:20 pace no problem without having run anything faster than probably 8:00 min pace in about five years.

This is all v anecdotal but everyone is different. My ex girlfriend can run an open 400m faster than I can (I don’t think I can break 63) but I can run pretty fast just running slow in training

600yd/600m man wrote:

otter wrote:

What would be the purpose of that? There is no sense in showing a consensus for something factual. I don't know why so many on this board have Lydiard's training so backwards. Read one of his books, and then share an opinion whether you agree with it or not.

Did that.

Lydiard's training for 800m athletes was not optimal. I do not know why fans of Lydiard are so dull. You Lydiard 800m fans do not want to consider that Snell would have raced 800m faster if Snell trained more in the manner of S Coe to circa 1982.

You think Snell and Coe didn't do similar training?

They had similar goals. In terms of Olympic ambitions, their goals were very similar.

I don't know why you are so dull as to not understand this?

But what are the top African runners doing now? I think their methods should be copied by Americans and then we might have a chance. It does not make any since to get out of touch with quality speed because you then waste time getting it back- because it takes less to maintain than to build again, every serious runner knows this. The flip side is too much quality will put you into overtraining, so it's a balance of keeping all "systems" firing near peak to make the most gains in a steady yearly progression, IMO.

Easy training pace should be relative to how fast you can run (after warmup), this also is just common sense. A 10 year old child will not run as fast as a world class distance runner. Easy-steady will look different for different runners. Daniels paces always seemed to work pretty well for me- even before he had the paces. He even says slower for recovery efforts if you need it.

fizzyologism wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Did that.

Lydiard's training for 800m athletes was not optimal. I do not know why fans of Lydiard are so dull. You Lydiard 800m fans do not want to consider that Snell would have raced 800m faster if Snell trained more in the manner of S Coe to circa 1982.

You think Snell and Coe didn't do similar training?

They had similar goals. In terms of Olympic ambitions, their goals were very similar.

I don't know why you are so dull as to not understand this?

Dissimilar enough that Lydiard training both held back Snell and Lydiard training set back U.S. 800m runners. U.S. lost out on many 400-800 men we will never know of since many coaches in U.S. insisted on training 800m runners in the manner was Snell trained. This is a fact. I hope you are not a high school or college coach ruining your 800m runners with high mileage. I hope you are not a high school or college coach deterring potential 400-800 talent with a Lydiard 800m training program.

600yd/600m man wrote:

fizzyologism wrote:

You think Snell and Coe didn't do similar training?

They had similar goals. In terms of Olympic ambitions, their goals were very similar.

I don't know why you are so dull as to not understand this?

Dissimilar enough that Lydiard training both held back Snell and Lydiard training set back U.S. 800m runners. U.S. lost out on many 400-800 men we will never know of since many coaches in U.S. insisted on training 800m runners in the manner was Snell trained. This is a fact. I hope you are not a high school or college coach ruining your 800m runners with high mileage. I hope you are not a high school or college coach deterring potential 400-800 talent with a Lydiard 800m training program.

Yeah Snell was an 800/1500/Mile runner. Well spotted. You are a freaking genius. He wasn't Alberto freakin Juantorena. You nailed it.

Too hard to gonna convince the plodders here. People in that D. Brazier topic were pretty convinced he's secretly running 80mpw like 47.mid 400m man Nick Symmonds