adding on to this, the light restrictions you mention as common-sense measures will barely dent covid spread
unless everyone is ready for an actual lockdown, covid will spread, I suggest we stop pretending like we're making an impact and just let it loose
Disagree...those measures will make enough of a difference to at least prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. In my city (St. Louis) - those measures were good enough this summer to keep numbers to a reasonable level/slow burn.
COVID will still spread no matter what, agreed, but it's the rate of spread that is the problem. Vaccination is the long-term solution.
Precious Roy wrote:
All we have to do in the next few months is stay home as much as possible and wear a mask when in public.
This is what we have been told repeatedly. And then the deadline gets pushed back farther every time. Why should people have faith in this narrative anymore?
When the deadline is pushed back, you will blame those who did not comply with protocols for the reason why. Then, you'll impose the protocols yet again despite knowing that those same few people won't adhere to them. It's a stupid cycle.
Is the solution martial law? I see no solution to shutting down this virus that is good for the public as a whole, unless you want to continue a stupid cycle of imposing mandates.
Sham 69 wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
All we have to do in the next few months is stay home as much as possible and wear a mask when in public.
This is what we have been told repeatedly. And then the deadline gets pushed back farther every time. Why should people have faith in this narrative anymore?
When the deadline is pushed back, you will blame those who did not comply with protocols for the reason why. Then, you'll impose the protocols yet again despite knowing that those same few people won't adhere to them. It's a stupid cycle.
Is the solution martial law? I see no solution to shutting down this virus that is good for the public as a whole, unless you want to continue a stupid cycle of imposing mandates.
Just two weeks to flatten the curve. Two weeks...
Sham 69 wrote:
2 weeks has turned into 8 months. Stop trying. It's not working. Go back to living normally or keep at it with the self-abuse I guess...
The only hope for vulnerable people is to improve their health and or to keep sanitary. Well actually, a vaccine is ready for them very soon. But we'll keep practicing the inhumane COVID "protocols", right?
My dumb county in a republican state is still keeping schools closed. They even might cancel our winter sports despite allowing fall sports. The idiocy is driving me bananas.
If they continue doing this next year I will go to a private school or out of county. This is such BS.
My life is 90% normal. I go to the gym, my kids go to school and swim lessons. Kids play at the park on weekends and we go out to dinner sometimes. I work in the office some days and from home other times.
The 10% not normal is wearing a mask everywhere, not visiting elderly relatives for the Holidays, and not having road races.
I’m in Texas though, with a sane Governor
A doctor wrote:
Disagree...those measures will make enough of a difference to at least prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. In my city (St. Louis) - those measures were good enough this summer to keep numbers to a reasonable level/slow burn.
COVID will still spread no matter what, agreed, but it's the rate of spread that is the problem. Vaccination is the long-term solution.
“Those measures” didn’t reduce spread in the summer, normal human summertime behavior did: spending more time outdoors. Now that cooler weather is coming, everyone’s gonna be indoors, and that’s where spread happens.
My governor is sane. It's just the people who run my county school district are super idiots.
Incorrect. Fall weather has been great here, more people outside now than ever and numbers still going up rapidly. People are more likely to be inside during the hot humid summers than the fall in Missouri.
What has happened this fall?
-lax mask wearing in public
-numerous smaller social gatherings w/ family/friends and people not masking - hard to control this sort of thing but if politicians of both parties stepped up at least some people would listen
-larger public gatherings allowed
A doctor wrote:
Dems and Repubs, what is the point in politicizing COVID? It's just making it worse. If leaders could just come together and decide on some common-sense measures, the American people would listen. Here's what needs to be done:
-wear a mask indoors
-mask wearing not mandatory for outdoors activities, just distance yourselves
-schools should remain open unless large outbreaks occur
-avoid any large gatherings of family/friends
-vaccine development
Is anyone really opposed to these things?
Anybody with an unbiased bone in their body would agree to all. But, the indoctrinated few (numbers are on the rise) and those hell bent on intentionally distorting reality are given a forum on LRC. There is no common sense here.
Sham 69 wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
All we have to do in the next few months is stay home as much as possible and wear a mask when in public.
This is what we have been told repeatedly. And then the deadline gets pushed back farther every time. Why should people have faith in this narrative anymore?
.
COVID burnout is real and all of us feel it. Had we taken it very seriously from the start, had a 2 - 3 weeks full country lockdown, we would have something closer to a regular summer and be in a better position to handle what's happening now. Not enough took it seriously, so these partial measures aren't making a real dent. Vaccines will help, but more people will get sick and die if EVERYBODY doesn't do their part.
The alternative to having faith in the narrative is to not. If you want to avoid lockdowns, not taking the steps to avoid lockdowns seems silly to me.
welp wrote:
A doctor wrote:
Dems and Repubs, what is the point in politicizing COVID? It's just making it worse. If leaders could just come together and decide on some common-sense measures, the American people would listen. Here's what needs to be done:
-wear a mask indoors
-mask wearing not mandatory for outdoors activities, just distance yourselves
-schools should remain open unless large outbreaks occur
-avoid any large gatherings of family/friends
-vaccine development
Is anyone really opposed to these things?
Anybody with an unbiased bone in their body would agree to all. But, the indoctrinated few (numbers are on the rise) and those hell bent on intentionally distorting reality are given a forum on LRC. There is no common sense here.
The problem is not only that people don't take it seriously, it's that others take it TOO seriously. In my state we have mandated masks outdoors at all times and most large school districts are still remote-only, and you're not allowed to travel across state lines without quarantining for two weeks. It would be a lot easier to get people to comply with the high-value restrictions ("ok everyone, I know it sucks but please skip big holiday gatherings this year") if you don't overwhelm people with low-value restrictions like "you must wear a mask to run in the park alone."
A doctor wrote:
I don't think it will work as you describe because many previously functional patients are surviving COVID, only to end up disabled (long-term lung damage, kidney failure, strokes etc). These people will supplant those that died as the new group of disabled, Medicaid patients. Your point that we are able to keep people alive longer is the reason. If you have some data supporting your claim, I'd like to see it.
COVID has made it clear, if it wasn't already, that Americans are generally in poor health, physically unfit, an unable/unwilling to take care of themselves. But, our hospitals cannot turn away any patients, and it's un-American to 'pull the plug'.
Can you be more specific than "many"? Then note what I've highlighted in your own comment. At least your last paragraph was pretty good. Respectfully, WWRD.
I've always said there are two courses of action:
1) A real lock down for 3-4 weeks. Meaning, you cannot leave you home for any reason. You would buy food online and it would be delivered in a large box by someone that used medical grade cleaning techniques. Or,
2) No lock down at all and we just live our normal lives with millions getting sick per week and tens of thousands dying every week.
This half way thing we've been doing is pointless, as the results have shown. Masks and social distancing at parties and restaurants don't do anything. So let's just open everything up and watch the death count skyrocket.
Remember when Trump kept claiming that he saved 2 millions lives by taking bold, unspecified actions against COVID? 2.2 million was the estimate of how many people would die if we chose to do nothing. Anyone arguing for "herd immunity" or a "return to normal" is arguing that we should let 2 million more Americans die. Yeah, that'll save the economy. Truly f*cked in the head.
Precious Roy wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would look at what we have become today and say "my God, what have I done?"
I've long contended that Ayn Rand would have been less respected if she had stuck with the original title of Atlas Shrugged: "Titans of Sindustry: Capitalist Studs Run Train on Dagny the Railroad Queen"
welp wrote:
Sham 69 wrote:
This is what we have been told repeatedly. And then the deadline gets pushed back farther every time. Why should people have faith in this narrative anymore?
.
COVID burnout is real and all of us feel it. Had we taken it very seriously from the start, had a 2 - 3 weeks full country lockdown, we would have something closer to a regular summer and be in a better position to handle what's happening now. Not enough took it seriously, so these partial measures aren't making a real dent. Vaccines will help, but more people will get sick and die if EVERYBODY doesn't do their part.
The alternative to having faith in the narrative is to not. If you want to avoid lockdowns, not taking the steps to avoid lockdowns seems silly to me.
Just like Europe, amirite?
COVID ICU survival rates are widely reported at 60% and we have similar stats at our hospital -
ICU survival will probably only (marginally) increase over time as we get better at treating COVID.
The COVID pandemic has been ongoing for less than a years, but we can extrapolate outcomes from other similar serious medical illnesses requiring ICU care:
'In a meta-analysis of 51 studies (7267 patients) who survived critical illness, only 33%, 55%, and 56% of previously employed patients returned to work by 3, 6, and 12 months, respectively, following critical illness'
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2769290
that's the best I can do. If you take someone who's already not in the greatest of health (most Americans who get COVID), give them COVID, and they survive a couple weeks in the ICU, they are not going to fare well in the long term, and many will be disabled.
If you have evidence to the contrary I'm happy to hear it as that would be better than what I see playing out currently ;)
128k wrote:
adding on to this, the light restrictions you mention as common-sense measures will barely dent covid spread
unless everyone is ready for an actual lockdown, covid will spread, I suggest we stop pretending like we're making an impact and just let it loose
We had a severe lockdown for a few months last spring. That was only partially lifted in the late spring and summer.
And now we are told the virus is again surging.
It's all bullspit
The Unkle wrote:
128k wrote:
adding on to this, the light restrictions you mention as common-sense measures will barely dent covid spread
unless everyone is ready for an actual lockdown, covid will spread, I suggest we stop pretending like we're making an impact and just let it loose
We had a severe lockdown for a few months last spring. That was only partially lifted in the late spring and summer.
And now we are told the virus is again surging.
It's all bullspit
Love you, Unkle. You are "told that the virus is again surging". And you don't believe it? I am asking just because I want to know more about the mood in USA for the time being.
Sham 69 wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
All we have to do in the next few months is stay home as much as possible and wear a mask when in public.
This is what we have been told repeatedly. And then the deadline gets pushed back farther every time. Why should people have faith in this narrative anymore?
When the deadline is pushed back, you will blame those who did not comply with protocols for the reason why. Then, you'll impose the protocols yet again despite knowing that those same few people won't adhere to them. It's a stupid cycle.
Is the solution martial law? I see no solution to shutting down this virus that is good for the public as a whole, unless you want to continue a stupid cycle of imposing mandates.
As a % of the population South Korea has very few cases compared to the US.
Do you know why?
I will let you guess:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/south-korean-president-declares-war-covid-19-deaths/story?id=69360757Wear a freaking mask!!!!
Alan
COVID burnout is real and all of us feel it. Had we taken it very seriously from the start, had a 2 - 3 weeks full country lockdown, we would have something closer to a regular summer and be in a better position to handle what's happening now. Not enough took it seriously, so these partial measures aren't making a real dent. Vaccines will help, but more people will get sick and die if EVERYBODY doesn't do their part.
The alternative to having faith in the narrative is to not. If you want to avoid lockdowns, not taking the steps to avoid lockdowns seems silly to me.[/quote]
Just like Europe, amirite?[/quote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, just like some countries in Europe. Lockdown for 5-6 weeks, but not total lockdown. And then, carefully, very carefully opening up. Test, trace, isolate. And when the new wave came, more restrictions again. But then you have to have some of those long forgotten conservative values; patience and discipline.