Tell your doctor the only reason you want to live into your eighties and beyond is to go after Ed Whitlock's 'Thon records.
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."
Matthew 16:23 NIV
My doctor told me to give up training for and running marathons by my mid 40s.
Training Advice/Discussion
Marathon
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Like most people doctors have their own biases. Some think running is great, others loathe it. And, despite what we have been trained to think, they are not infallible. I have experienced this first hand. Had a torn hamstring tendon that happened after chronic tendinopathy. Had radiating pain down my leg which was caused from inflammation pressing on sciatic nerve. That made it difficult to diagnose. Went to 5 different doctors over 6 months until someone diagnosed it properly. That was a real eye opener to me. Diagnoses ranged from bursa sac inflamation to a lesion on my brain.
Moral of the story is that it's important to get multiple opinions and take ownership of your own health care. I would also consider the mental health benefits of running vs. not running. -
Get a better doctor. The guy you’re seeing is a quack. I know hundreds of hobby marathoners over age 50 including some in their 70s and 80s.
The greatest cause of death is old age. If you don’t die of something else age will eventually kill you. -
I feel like doctors are overstepping their boundaries when they say that kind of stuff. It's almost as bad as a 300 lbs person telling you that running is bad for your knees. If your happy and healthy and training with little problems, go for it.
If all athletes listened to what doctors say, elite training programs would consist of elliptical, walking your dog, light weights and stretching 10 minutes a day. -
op, there is a lot of truth to what the doctor is saying, but one must balance their priorities and desires with any information that comes their way, negative or positive. we all make our choices.
if you only desire to continue running thons to hit your time goals, keep working on it until it becomes very clear that your days of PRs are over.
if you desire to win age groups, etc., keep running for as long as that seems to be working out. -
Find a new doctor.
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shoeless in Seattle wrote:
Tommy Hughes 60. Ed Whitlock mid 80s. Dan King 61 and runs 4:49 mile. The problem is not the training bit the western diet of high carbs sugar and chronic inflammation of most people. Those who’ve trained and raced at a high level previously ie collegiate and post typically do not have problems. Its the couch to marathon types who’ve no idea how to train properly who most typically have issues. Genetics plays an even greater role
You prove nothing by pointing to Hughes and King. They may or may not outlive their life expectancy. Whitlock beat the expectancy by several years. It's not clear if he would have lived longer with lower volume of training. (If I am not mistaken, many people in his family had lived way beyond their life expectancy.) -
jvarunner wrote:
During my yearly physical my doc told me I should quit serious endurance training for marathons by the time I reach my mid 40s. He recommends this for anyone that is a serious endurance athlete. He said numerous studies, consistently demonstrate that the type of training that I do is a significant risk factor for two of the main types of heart disease and rhythm related heart issues. I should mix up my exercise and race only short stuff, like 1 mile to 5k.
He gave me some stuff to read and pointed me to this podcast for some basic info.
https://peterattiamd.com/jamesokeefe/
Anyone here been told the same thing by their doctor? Or read any of the research?
I am currently 37 years old and run 70-90 miles per week (was hoping to increase that to over 100) and have goals of breaking 70 in half and 2:25 in the marathon. I still have a ways to go to get there but those are my high end goals.
There is a significant increase in atrial fibrillation in endurance athletes. HOWEVER, There does not appear to be increased risk of stroke(the reason we worry about afib). It is thought the function of the left atrial appendage functions normally, therefore it does not format clots, therefore no increased stroke risk.
Next, concerning coronary artery calcification. There is no evidence this is associated with increased death.
I think any doctor making such a recommendation is doing so based purely on opinion, and has no real evidence to stand on. -
Its common bro knowledge that marathon distance training is correlated with enlarged hearts. That's not a bad thing so long as the heart walls aren't too thick. Thick heart walls make the heart's pacemaking more difficult. Too long of a time span between certain heart beats whacks the heart beat rhythm, and ventricular fibrillation happens. Overstressed hearts with insufficient pre-loading and high peripheral resistance causes all this. If you do marathons comfortably, there shouldn't be any cause to quit. Its not the distance, its the volume of higher intensity training. You could easily get the same hypertrophic cardiomyopathy from shorter distances. Usually, it's people who are dealing with high blood pressure or diabetes who get the heart issues. If you are a runner who is trying to train 5 times a week in order to keep your blood pressure low enough, you might be a candidate for hypertrophic myopathy, especially if you train too aggressively and don't do a sufficient warm-up that normally would open up your arterioles for easier blood flow during the workout.
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Before anyone jumps to conclusions, check out the Doctor on YouTube. He's a very smart man, and I say don't 'shoot the messenger,' No matter how tough you think you are, certainly there are things you won't be able to control. As noted, if you're a competitive Athlete, you will cause damage. Just because you're a runner doesn't mean you're immune to Heart/Health problems.
Like most reading this, I run/race almost 50 years straight. In college, ran 29:32 10k on the track 14:27 5k, and 20 marathons. Mountain racing had been my 'specialty' winning Pikes Peak ascent in mid 70's. So, my story: I was shocked a few years ago with heart issues..from afib and suffered with 'mini-strokes' 3 times. I was a tough guy too, ran 120 weeks in high school and college. My running mentor had the same issues before me. I too had thought, will never happen to me. Well, when it did, I researched the web like crazy to discover why? There I ran across Dr. James O'keefe. I was humbled! To make a long story shorter, I listened to Doc. I am stubborn, but care about my family and loved ones. I heard a person once state at a half-ironman triathlon, the fact that our bodies are like machines...and machines break down sooner of later. Thus, I was forced to back way off and cut the running of 7 days of week, basically year-round. My goal after listening to Dr. O'keefe was to run to stay fit. Guess what? No Olympics if ever! I want to live a long and happy life. My Dad passed away today at the age of 92. He ran only playing soccer in his mid 30's. I've run/raced non-stop for 50 years next Spring. I want to be like Rich Castro Women's Coach in Colorado. As suggested by Dr. O'keefe, I now run to stay fit..20-35 miles a week and cycle. As for the 'old guys' who run well now after 60 and above, good for them. Most start, or restart after a long lay off. From what I see, few can sustain forever. Granted a few exceptions, but I'm friends with Craig Virgin, Chuck Smead, but only a few still excel, but at what cost? I prefer to be healthy, because from my experience, hard running can be fatal Studies have proven it. Check out Doc's vids on TedTalks, The Europeans have also done extensive studies. One final note: Most are familiar with the book,
Born To Run? The subject Micah True died after a 12 mile run. Read for yourself the autopsy reports and what it shows. Again, I'm not here to say it's a result of running, but pay attention. Like the guy at the Triathlon said: "our bodies are like machines and machines always break down." Thanks for reading, as I just wanted to share my personal experience. I didn't like facing reality, but sure am glad for Dr. James O'keefe and his research. My family is too, sure running is important, but living a long and happy life is more so! -
go read up on alex hutchison's found studies - the myth of health decline and aging is fought hard by him.
most doctors are morans on this topic. they saw the one study and that's it.
they're not involved so they don't care. -
I started running in 2015. So I only have a little over 5 years of serious running under my belt. When I first started running I got addicted and definitely had some cycles of overtraining. Since then I have learned a good amount about proper training and hired a coach a few years ago. As a result, the effectiveness of my training has improved and I train smarter and safer. My coach and I always take into consideration how my body is feeling when putting together my training plan.
I am going to dive deeper into the research that may be out there, just to stay informed. But if I feel healthy and if I am still able to perform at a high level and be competitive as a master's runner, I most likely will continue to train for and run marathons. The benefits to my mental health and the camaraderie I have found through running are other aspects I really value about running.
I don't think my Dr is a quack, but I was a bit surprised that he suggested this on his own. I think got on the topic of running when I mentioned I was "only" running 70 ish miles a week right now because I hadn't been able to race a marathon since Chicago 2019.
On another note, I find the discussion on diet interesting because my wife is trying eat less carbs, and might slowly transition to a keto diet. I am looking into the research related to eating less carbs and how I might be able to make that work with my training. Definitely wouldn't do keto as that wouldn't sustain my training intensity and volume of the intensity I race at, but lessing the amount of carbs seems reasonable as I probably eat a large amount. -
jvarunner wrote:
During my yearly physical my doc told me I should quit serious endurance training for marathons by the time I reach my mid 40s. He recommends this for anyone that is a serious endurance athlete. He said numerous studies, consistently demonstrate that the type of training that I do is a significant risk factor for two of the main types of heart disease and rhythm related heart issues. I should mix up my exercise and race only short stuff, like 1 mile to 5k.
He gave me some stuff to read and pointed me to this podcast for some basic info.
https://peterattiamd.com/jamesokeefe/
Anyone here been told the same thing by their doctor? Or read any of the research?
I am currently 37 years old and run 70-90 miles per week (was hoping to increase that to over 100) and have goals of breaking 70 in half and 2:25 in the marathon. I still have a ways to go to get there but those are my high end goals.
Unless your doctor is writing papers about this phenomenon or is a somewhat competitive runner her/himself, I’d keep going with the running. Why would you listen to someone who doesn’t understand what it takes to run so much/hard?!
No one wants to be 100 years old anyway. My grandparents were 103 and they said they’d be happy to go when they turned 90. The world is seemingly obsessed with living longer, but no one is that pumped to be alive or taking full advantage of life in the first place -
I’m 44 I’ll check back in 10-20 years. I’m hoping this is either BS (bad science) or that I’m an outlier.
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This article is helpful and presents some good information.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2405907/extreme-exercise-heart-health-study#close -
It is not a *fact" that the body is like a machine. I don't know how you all convince yourselves that your personal opinions are all "facts"
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I'm not trying to talk anyone out of running marathons. I've run 5 in my youth (I'm 66), my PR is 2:39. I think running in general is a great form of exercise and great way to be active. I do think however, if you are running marathons, you are not doing it for your health. I don't think it's good for you over all and would tend to agree with your doctor about running them past your 40's.
Doesn't make me right and it is only my opinion. Plenty of people continue running them well into their 70's , recreationally. In many ways I admire them. I can't anymore, my knees are shot and what ever talent I had in my youth, is gone. I struggle to do 12 minutes miles anymore. -
negativesplitter wrote:
[quote]Precious Roy wrote:
You should give up marathon by your mid 40s because the physical decline from aging makes it a dismal way to spend your time. There is little reward in going out and bashing your legs just to run a marathon 3-4 minutes slower every year.
So wrong! I'm running marathons at age 65 and I love it. There is great reward in pursuing age-graded times and crushing the competition. Never stop getting after it! Running is a fabulous gift, and training is a great way to use the gift -- the farthest thing from a "dismal way to spend your time".
Yeah but the point is you're not training the way you would if you were under 40. OP -- I don't think you have anything to worry about. You're not gonna be PR-ing at the marathon at 45. Running is a lifetime sport. I think your body will tell you when you hit 40ish that you're not as fast as you used to be. Maybe at that time you still want to train hard. Well okay but that maybe means 50-60 miles/week instead of 70-90+. I know plenty of master's guys that focus their 40+ goals on cross country in the fall (10k max) & short stuff in the spring. Some still do halfs every now & then but most aren't running marathons.
Interested in the science of all this. I don't think training hard is unhealthy but would love to learn more about that. It makes sense to naturally move away from the longer stuff as you age. Doesn't mean you can't have goals tho. -
The question was in their '40's.
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To answer the OP's question. Yes, I have been told some version of this by two doctors in the past year, which led me to do a bit of reading on my own. I think the advice to keep runs to under 90 minutes seems sound. But I can live with that because I don't enjoy racing more than 5K anyway.
