Purpose of Speedwork

runrunrun24 wrote:

They say you should know what the purpose of a workout is before you do it. I mean that kind of speaks for itself. But it can definitely be confusing trying to decide what intervals to do when and for what purpose. Any insight into what different intervals are for? I'm thinking the typical stuff. 8X400, 1200 repeats, Pyramid style intervals, etc.

There are many answers to your question. So, I'm confused about what you are asking?

It depends on the intensity and rest. For example a 8x400 can serve several purposes based on rest and intensity or even what surface you do the workout on.

runrunrun24 wrote:

They say you should know what the purpose of a workout is before you do it. I mean that kind of speaks for itself. But it can definitely be confusing trying to decide what intervals to do when and for what purpose. Any insight into what different intervals are for? I'm thinking the typical stuff. 8X400, 1200 repeats, Pyramid style intervals, etc.

There are many answers to your question. So, I'm confused about what you are asking?

It depends on the intensity and rest. For example a 8x400 can serve several purposes based on rest and intensity or even what surface you do the workout on.

there aren't necessarily perfect answers. a lot of science that people believe to be true has been debunked, though the workouts that came from that faux science often still work.

This one's a particular soapbox for me, but I hate the term "speedwork" with distance runners. That's a huge part of why information in our sport can be so hard to sift through. If it get's past maybe 150m (done at a full sprint with full recovery) then we're no longer playing in the same sandbox as "speedwork." We mostly get what people mean, but it makes it all that much harder to know what a coach means when they say, "we don't do speedwork for the first 3 months... we try not to do too much speedwork this time of year... speedwork can peak you too soon if you aren't careful..."

Even wondering why we do "speedwork" probably came from a coach that didn't care enough about his/her craft enough to explain why you were given a particular workout. That's the hill I'm willing to die on.

In case you're curious about speed development:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7836514

Onto your question. It's really hard to pin down something so open ended so I'm going to dodge the question slightly and give you some concepts first. From there you'll have some Lego blocks to know why we build things in certain ways.

Fitness for a distance runner can (very generally) be defined by 3 things:

- How much endurance you have

- How much speed you have

- How well you can blend the two together

Without getting into too many terms and details, every workout is meant to enhance and/or shift fitness in some way to be more effective in a race. A longer workout like a tempo run or 10x1k w/ 90s rest are probably trying to push that runner to work on more endurance qualities but clearly have a faster component than just a long run. A workout like 8x400m (usually done at mile pace) falls right in the middle for most HS/college kids. It's not an "endurance workout" and it's not a "speed workout" but it clearly involves both to a reasonably high degree. But what happens if I give a 400m runner an 8x400m workout?

Well to start they'll be furious with you... and when their sprint coach finds out he'll be pretty pissed off too. But that workout would clearly be more endurance related to them. I've had 400/800m runners whose "long runs" were 12x400m at a tempo pace with a short recovery. Proper long runs didn't work for them and this allowed the opportunity to express endurance through the language that their bodies understood. That same workout is basically useless for a 10k runner. It's too short, too slow, and just out of place.

What I hope you're starting to see is that 8x400m, 1200m repeats, or a pyramid workout aren't types of workouts. They can be used for more than one thing if we change up enough variables. If a workout is slower than your race you're probably trying to work on something related to endurance. If your workout is faster than your race then it's probably trying to work on something related to speed. If it's at or near your race pace, well, it's probably trying to get you ready for that.

The best thing I was ever taught as a coach was to get away from thinking about specific workouts and where to place them. Instead, decide what you want to accomplish from the session and build the pieces from there. You may not end up with something traditional, but you've probably attacked the problem better than trying to fit the triangle peg through the square hole.

1) "Intervals" refers to the recovery interval, between repetitions.

2) The purpose of the workout(s) can vary ... I'll get to that ... but,

Actually, I think you are asking the question backwards, if as you say, you are trying to decide what workouts to do. Probably better to start by understanding what you are training for, where you are in your training, and the components that should be included in this part of your training. Then use that information to determine the purpose of each workout that will go on your schedule.

This will be rudimentary bc I am not an expert- apologies to anybody who knows more than I do, if I say something dumb here--

Ok, let's say you are training for, say, the mile, and you have periodized your 6-12 mo training cycle into, for example, Base Phase, Intensity Phase, Competition Phase, and Peaking Phase. Suppose you have completed Base training, and your Intensity Phase is going to have, say, two workouts per week. Let's say the objective of your Intensity Phase is to maintain / further develop the aerobic fitness you developed during Base Phase while also developing speed & strength needed to prepare for the harder workouts & races during the upcoming Competition Phase.

Ok, so in this example maybe you decide that the purpose of the first workout is for aerobic threshold training. Let’s say you did 20' tempo runs during Base Phase, so maybe you decide to do 1200m cruise intervals during Intensity. You determine the appropriate pace (a little faster than tempo runs), the number of reps (say, 5, for a workout volume of 6000m; that is, more than your tempo run distance during the previous training phase), and an appropriate rest or recovery for this type of workout, given its purpose (in this case, I dunno, say 60 sec 200m jog).

All right, let's say the second workout is speed/strength. Suppose you opt for 8 x 400m. Say you did a mile TT at the end of Base Phase, so you know your current fitness. Since you know the purpose of the workout, you can structure it according to its purpose - maybe you decide that the speed component is key during this phase, so you decide to run the first 6 reps at 1-2 sec faster than TT pace, then faster for the last two; also, given the purpose of the workout, perhaps a slow 3 min 400m jog plus 30 sec standing rest will allow you enough recovery to maintain quality of pace during the session (let's say you're planning on reducing recovery time during the next training phase).

In this example, suppose all your other days are easy runs and one long run. Now, you can look at the plan and see if anything is missing. Hmmm ... maybe you figure that, for you, it will be difficult to significantly improve those 400m repeats without some other, faster sessions. But you don't want to add another workout, bc you already have 2 workouts and a long run, and you know you can't handle a third workout without causing problems for yourself, and you don't want to remove anything that's already in your weekly schedule ... ok then, maybe you decide to add some strides / 4 x 75m accelerations to the end of your easy runs. Just enough to get you a little turnover, not enough to wear you out over several weeks of this training phase.

Hopefully that example made sense. Knowing the purpose helps you determine the workout. Asking it the other way, without any context, may not make as much sense.

For example, what's the purpose of 8 x 400? I don’t know. The question has no context and doesn't make any sense by itself. What pace/effort are the 400s at? What kind of rest or recovery? For a marathoner, 8 x 400 with 800m jog might be the fastest top-speed workout they do. For a 10K runner, 8 x 400m at race pace with 2 min standing rest might be an easy stride-out session a day or two before a race. Shorter/longer recovery intervals with varying efforts are all totally different workouts with totally different purposes.

Likewise, 1200m repeats can have a variety of purposes. If, say 3-4 reps at threshold effort with 1 minute jog, the purpose may be to help you get fit enough to eventually do a full 15-20 min tempo run. If more reps at slightly faster than tempo pace with a short recovery jog, the purpose may be to give you more threshold work than a 20' tempo run. If done at something like 2-mile pace with equal time or half time recovery, it is probably a VO2max session. As another example, in college I was given 1200m repeats at "sustainably hard" effort, with standing rest to HR 120, at a progressively faster pace over a few weeks, as part of fall training for 400m. The purpose was aerobic development.

tl;dr The purpose can vary, depending on the specifics. When deciding on a workout, first know the purpose/objective and then plan the workout accordingly.

Gahh. That was long. Sorry for the dang book. Hopefully, I wrote something sensible.

1) "Intervals", as I understand it, refers to the recovery interval, between repetitions.

2) The purpose of the workout(s) can vary ... I'll get to that ... but,

Actually, I think you are asking the question backwards, if as you say, you are trying to decide what workouts to do. Probably better to start by understanding what you are training for, where you are in your training, and the components that should be included in this part of your training. Then use that information to determine the purpose of each workout that will go on your schedule.

This will be rudimentary bc I am not an expert- apologies to anybody who knows more than I do, if I say something dumb here--

Ok, let's say you are training for, say, the mile, and you have periodized your 6-12 mo training cycle into, for example, Base Phase, Intensity Phase, Competition Phase, and Peaking Phase. Suppose you have completed Base training, and your Intensity Phase is going to have, say, two workouts per week. Let's say the objective of your Intensity Phase is to maintain / further develop the aerobic fitness you developed during Base Phase while also developing speed & strength needed to prepare for the harder workouts & races during the upcoming Competition Phase.

Ok, so in this example maybe you decide that the purpose of the first workout is for aerobic threshold training. Let’s say you did 20' tempo runs during Base Phase, so maybe you decide to do 1200m cruise intervals during Intensity. You determine the appropriate pace (a little faster than tempo runs), the number of reps (say, 5, for a workout volume of 6000m; that is, more than your tempo run distance during the previous training phase), and an appropriate rest or recovery for this type of workout, given its purpose (in this case, I dunno, say 60 sec 200m jog).

All right, let's say the second workout is speed/strength. Suppose you opt for 8 x 400m. Say you did a mile TT at the end of Base Phase, so you know your current fitness. Since you know the purpose of the workout, you can structure it according to its purpose - maybe you decide that the speed component is key during this phase, so you decide to run the first 6 reps at 1-2 sec faster than TT pace, then faster for the last two; also, given the purpose of the workout, perhaps a slow 3 min 400m jog plus 30 sec standing rest will allow you enough recovery to maintain quality of pace during the session (let's say you're planning on reducing recovery time during the next training phase).

In this example, suppose all your other days are easy runs and one long run. Now, you can look at the plan and see if anything is missing. Hmmm ... maybe you figure that, for you, it will be difficult to significantly improve those 400m repeats without some other, faster sessions. But you don't want to add another workout, bc you already have 2 workouts and a long run, and you know you can't handle a third workout without causing problems for yourself, and you don't want to remove anything that's already in your weekly schedule ... ok then, maybe you decide to add some strides / 4 x 75m accelerations to the end of your easy runs. Just enough to get you a little turnover, not enough to wear you out over several weeks of this training phase.

Hopefully that example made sense. Knowing the purpose helps you determine the workout. Asking it the other way, without any context, may not make as much sense.

For example, what's the purpose of 8 x 400? I don’t know. The question has no context and doesn't make any sense by itself. What pace/effort are the 400s at? What kind of rest or recovery? For a marathoner, 8 x 400 with 800m jog might be the fastest top-speed workout they do. For a 10K runner, 8 x 400m at race pace with 2 min standing rest might be an easy stride-out session a day or two before a race. Shorter/longer recovery intervals with varying efforts are all totally different workouts with totally different purposes.

Likewise, 1200m repeats can have a variety of purposes. If, say 3-4 reps at threshold effort with 1 minute jog, the purpose may be to help you get fit enough to eventually do a full 15-20 min tempo run. If more reps at slightly faster than tempo pace with a short recovery jog, the purpose may be to give you more threshold work than a 20' tempo run. If done at something like 2-mile pace with equal time or half time recovery, it is probably a VO2max session. As another example, in college I was given 1200m repeats at "sustainably hard" effort, with standing rest to HR 120, at a progressively faster pace over a few weeks, as part of fall training for 400m. The purpose was aerobic development.

tl;dr The purpose can vary, depending on the specifics. When deciding on a workout, first know the purpose/objective and then plan the workout accordingly.

Gahh. That was long. Sorry for the dang book. Hopefully, I wrote something sensible.

oops. Website glitch. Didn't mean to double post that book of a response. Sorry, all.

Do know that workouts precede high mileage. Lon Myers and Walter George were doing workouts 140 plus years ago. Runners were doing 100yds., 200yds., repeats decades before the previously stated. Logging (50 to 150) miles per week is much more recent.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

oops. Website glitch. Didn't mean to double post that book of a response. Sorry, all.

You should apologise for such a long post if anything.

ifzif wrote:

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

oops. Website glitch. Didn't mean to double post that book of a response. Sorry, all.

You should apologise for such a long post if anything.

Thought I already did

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

Gahh. That was long. Sorry for the dang book. Hopefully, I wrote something sensible.

but fair enough. Sorry, that one got away from me. I'll try to rein in the keyboard diarrhea.