Brazier 35mpw myth

In the past people who report very low mileage do not include warm up, cool down, or any easy running. For instance, I've seen people report 30-35 mpw but they do not include 35-40 miles of easy running during the week.

Didn’t reach my potential? Correct, I haven’t reached it yet. Severely undertrained? Definitely not. 25 mpw (and yes, counting everything like warmup, cooldown, workouts, etc. in the calculation to get to that number) got me into shape faster than any previous plans did. When done right you can fit a LOT of quality in there. For example, race every week and do multiple races/work out after a race. For some reason nobody seems to believe in racing into shape anymore.

And it’s not as if this is how I have always run. I’ve gone as high as 45-60 mpw which both didn’t get me into shape very fast and also led to injuries more often than not. For many 800m runners, bumping up that high is not worth the risk.

I ran 3:46 off of an average of 32 miles per week for the four months leading up the race and have never run more than 55. I am nowhere near as talented as DB so I completely believe he's capped under 40.

quality over quantity wrote:

A

49.xx/1:48.xx

guy may need to log more mileage to race 3:35.xx 1500m than a

47.xx/1:42.xx

guy. Some runners will only give you number of road miles if you ask how many miles per week. That's what I say when asked. If someone asks may how many miles per week, I just give road miles. I do not add in: 5 x 2000m &/or 6 x 1200m &/or 7 x 800m &/or ... .

You're nuts.

I am 38 years old. At 32 had a 95% blocked lad at the upper branch of the artery which suggests I should be dead. I still run more than Brazier if that is the case.

Impala31 wrote:

I don't buy it.

No way he is running 3'35 with 35mpw.

He buys it . CERA.

"While there is the rare and talented Donavan Braziers, and David Rudisha of the world who possess borderline world class 44-46 400m speed and run the 800 meters. This is a Super Rare exception, not the norm.

The average male runner who can run a 49-52 400m (Which I realize is not average) and ends up running in the 1:53-1:59 range while doing low mileage training in high school is a demonstration of running talent, not of inherent 800 meter specialist ability.

What this means is you are probably not exceptional. You are probably not exempt from training like any other Mid/Distance Runner, which includes moderate (50-70) to high mileage (70-90+). Challenging long runs, and continuing to build upon strength work.

After hearing Shelby Houlihan on the Letsrun Podcast talk about how she was a 55 Second 400-meter state champ in high school, this displayed the points I am making. This “speed” was a demonstration of talent, not a specialization. If she were to fall prey to a mindset of 800-meter exceptionalism that we see from other athletes, we would not have the well ranged and top tier athlete that Shelby Houlihan is today.

I do not intend to shxt on athletes who have this mindset of training and identify as a 800-meter specialist. I am more so challenge the mindset of those who believe it.

The good news is that if you are an athlete who has inherent 400m speed, you already have the minimum requirement of speed required to run solid mid distance times. So, what do you have to lose by putting in the distance work that every other distance runner must do? Who knows? Maybe you’ll run a significant mile time, 5000-meter time, or heck, even a 10k."

the mileage figure is not a metric to use. very bad. i use it though recognizing its a silly gauge.

if i do 6 x a mile in 420 with short recovery and don't count warm up and warm down

and you do a 12 mile run at 630 min / mile. and count also count miles in your walk to the grocery store.

i win, you lose, you silly jogger.

so

the mileage count is a total canard.

the focus on training middle distance is to develop aerobic capacity,

and of course long sprinter speed.

which is why its called middle distance.

a guy with 47 400m speed, needs of course aerobic ability to go further.

you can do this without 20 mile runs.

hill repeats of 3 minutes will develop aerobic ability like no other.

sure for the 1500m, you want to do some 45 minute to 1 hour runs at pace.

last thing you want to do is do long distance compromising basic speed.

still, if you're healthy, anyone can do a decent volume to good effect.

I think you fail to realize there are plenty of 400/800 types and pure 800m runners, and that most do not respond well to high mileage.A 44-46 400m is just what it takes to break the 800m record, or just run under 1:42.The faster you run an 800 the more anaerobic it becomes, high mileage heavily aerobic training is not what will lead to a 1:41 800m.Coe ran 1:41 and ran much higher mileage than Brazier(he was also not a 400/800 guy though), but he still did a good amount of anaerobic running.Coe also had 46 400m speed, and so does korir, Amos, Rudisha, kipketer, tuka,hoppel, and most great 800m runners. If your are not borderline elite in the 400m, you will not be the best in the 800m.

Shelby does not prove your points she is a 1500/5000m runner not and 800m runner, her training would obviously involve higher mileage the events are much longer, much slower, and therefore more aerobic. 55.52 400m is good but far from exceptional. I'd say a 50-52 would be the female equivalent of brazier's or Rudisha's 400m speed.

Yes the average person is slow twitch dominant and could improve drastically with higher mileage, but 9/10 times a speed based middle distance runner will thrive off of relatively low mileage. Coaching must be individualized, high mileage can ruin some athletes.More and more visible evidence is showing that the best 800m runners normally thrive on low milage, look at Vasquez, its not just Brazier.

Let me make a couple things clear.

I am NOT talking about high mileage. 50 MPW is not HIGH mileage either is 60 or 70.

I'm talking about the idea that we are just supposed to leave these guys alone and just have them train very little. The backwards idea that they are super fragile and that we are going to "ZAP" the speed out of them.

These "so called" 400m/800m guys. Yes they exist for sure. But are very very very rare. The danger of this is that we have people are like in that 49-52 range 400 wise and run a "Decent" 800 and then just adopt this mentality.

That speed is the "talent" is not a representation of being a 800m specialist.

Look if you want to train this way that is totally okay. Do what you want. But I think a fair amount of these guys would be pretty damn surprised how good they can run if they bunkered down and did some actual training.

Also I'd love to know what you mean by "fast twitch, slow twitch"? When people quote this it just makes me cringe.

So what kinds of slow twitch fast guy is Jakob? he runs 1:46 and is about to run a pretty damn good half marathon I would assume. Or Safan? heck she's close to the WR in the 800m- half marathon. What about Galen? Man he ran soooo much miles and it zapped his speed so bad that he ran a 3:50 mile gezz what a shame...

Low Mileage Runner wrote:

Didn’t reach my potential? Correct, I haven’t reached it yet. Severely undertrained? Definitely not. 25 mpw (and yes, counting everything like warmup, cooldown, workouts, etc. in the calculation to get to that number) got me into shape faster than any previous plans did. When done right you can fit a LOT of quality in there. For example, race every week and do multiple races/work out after a race. For some reason nobody seems to believe in racing into shape anymore.

And it’s not as if this is how I have always run. I’ve gone as high as 45-60 mpw which both didn’t get me into shape very fast and also led to injuries more often than not. For many 800m runners, bumping up that high is not worth the risk.

How is going for an additional easy weekly 5 mile run is 2 going to give you more injuries than racing every week and doing workouts after racing!

Everyone keeps going on about Braziers speed 46.9 is not that exceptional. He's never even broken 47 outdoors.

He's doing a Coe and getting everyone to train like a hs girl

BRAZIER IS NOT A 400/800 guy. No matter how much he might like to think he is a sprinter. He does not have anywhere near world class 400 speed.

Brilliant stuff and also feel free to check aos tv for much more entertainment here: https://aostv.in/

Very Mediocre 800m runner. wrote:

Look if you want to train this way that is totally okay. Do what you want. But I think a fair amount of these guys would be pretty damn surprised how good they can run if they bunkered down and did some actual training.

There is this typical Let's Run idea that doing a lot of miles is "real training". When I was seriously training for the 800, I used to love the base period, when we were mostly piling up miles and enjoying easy miles, tempo, long intervals. The real training starts when mileage drops and each mile gets freaking hard. A 4x(2x300) at race pace is just 1.5 miles, but is much more brutal than a 6-mile tempo. Brazier trains to be a world-class 800m runner, not a hobby-jogger with a great range.  I am sure he could clock 100 miles/week and improve his 10K time by a couple of minutes so that he could run 1:44-3:32-27:45 and be a non-factor at any distance on the world stage.

A 4x(2x300) at race pace is just 1.5 miles, .

This is exactly why most of these posts about low mileage are ridiculous. That workout clearly isn't 1.5 miles, in reality it's going to be more like 6. Or maybe you don't warm up or warm down (or do any strides or anything before the workout). I guess that's why the workout is so hard.

People bragging about low mileage are the same as people bragging about how fast their unproven times are. I did an interval workout today (27:00 total) - I guess I could say I ran under 5 miles according to some of the posters. I only did two workouts this week so with my long run I only did about 23 miles this week. So I can run a sub 17 5k at age 48 at under 25 miles a week!

Wut. All those distances you listed are very aerobic. Take Mo Farah for example. For sure he could run probably 1:45 +/- one second, but what’s his 100 time FAT? Probably around 11.7-12.0.

People have a misconception of what it means to be a 4/8 guy or a 8/15 guy. Brazier is 100% a 4/8 guy because that’s how he TRAINS. It doesn’t matter if he pops a couple fast 15s here and there. If I’m running the 5k and train very aerobically but run some rust buster 15s, I’m not a 15/5 I’m and 5/10.

And I would argue that the majority of 800 runners are 4/8 guys. There’s no 800 runners that are doing a tempo run every week and running 100+ miles. Just like there’s no marathoners doing <100 sprints 5/7 days a week

nothing i've read about brazier indicates that he trains anything like a 400 runner. he is not a 4/8 guy. in reality, he trains to be just an 800 guy. His two best events are 800/1500. So if you have to say 4/8 or 8/15, he is 8/15.

but fine if you want to just call him a pure 8 guy.

It's not about the training but about the performances

3:35.8 converts to 45.21.

And he can probably do much better in the 1500 in a real race.

So Bazier is defenitely better at the 1500 than at the 400m

So please guys, stop calling him a 400/800 guy.