Sub 15 at 30 yo - 8 weeks or less? Or crazy...

Thanks for this thread and update. The info is relevant and informative to many, no doubt.

Sorry your PR efforts didn't work out this time around. Better luck next time!0

Next time forget about blocks of training and phase systems. Stay with the same basic training week after week and concentrate at your individual best paces up to your present shape.And you don`t need more than 40-50 mpw to reach your sub 15 min goal. Good luck! :)

I have similar goals and have run quality workouts, but have had similar results in time trials so far this year. My legs also feel like lead with half way or 1600m to go even though I've ran that pace fairly easily in seasons past.

Learn from it but don't dwell on it too much...once real races are back you will poised to give sub 15 a shot. Not everyone has been succeeding during corona.

I think you're right to believe you're in better shape than last year. That's what I keep telling myself. Use the downtime to strategize for next season.

Don't get too discouraged about your performance during this stretch. 3800 miles for the year is high-quality mileage, and I imagine much more than your body is typically used to in a twelve-month period. Also, remind yourself that we're in the midst of a pandemic, and while it would have been nice to hit the mark, it will be even sweeter to do so in a real competitive setting. It's best to shut it down, reset, and begin a nice base build. Your flatness in time trial performances is likely from a lot of accumulated fatigue, although your insight about a lack of tempo work is on point too.

I haven't forgotten about this thread, and I wish you all the best in your subsequent attempts to break 15. I ran 15:40 in a time trial in mid-September, clicking off 75.x every lap solo while teammates were either way up ahead or far behind. I have another 5k time trial this Sunday with two more four-week mileage builds under my belt: the first up to 88 miles, and then maxing out to over 100 miles with 5k elevation last week. It's been many, many hill reps and strength work without a lot of standard track/tempos yet, but 20x400 w/ 100m recovery @~72-73 felt effortless. This weekend's goal time is undetermined, but I think a 20-25s leap in performance isn't out of the question.

Hang in there. No need to beat yourself up; regroup, reset, and get started on another grind. That's the most satisfying part of this lifestyle anyway.

Your times are good:

Below I have a workout, which you can repeat each week for a couple of months ( or more).

I have coached runners before, but usually I focused on my running career, and then my career and running.

I ran in HS and college. Sports was cancelled for 1 year in our city, which removed my senior year, and I was expected to be the leader of the top CC team in the country, and to be part of a record setting 2-mile relay. My junior year (the previous year), we made all-American for the 2-mile relay.

In my late 20s, I ran 14:48 for 5K on the way to a 30:12 10K, 51:28 for 10 miles. I made the mistake of 100 mile weeks for 6-7 months (all under 6 minutes per mile). I routinely ran around 15:05-15:15 despite work schedule. Then I returned to running fast 800m and miles, but got injured, but not from the training.

My HS coach had trained under Dellinger and Bowerman while in grad school at Oregon, running with the CC team. I think the year was 1967. He is in the IL Coaches Hall of Fame .

WORKOUT

Day 1. One aerobic distance run per week: we would do 1 hour and cover about 9 miles (6:40 pace).

1a. So...run for 1 hour, once a week. It is meant to be aerobic, which means you are not short of breath. We did this on Sundays.

Day 2. Lydiard fartlek: 5-7 miles, building up to a fast, sustained pace, then slowing down. 3-4 such builds in the workout. We would build for about 3/4ths of a mile and sustain for 400m or so.

Day 3. Homer fartlek: 4-6 miles, running 6:30 - 7 minute pace, then stopping for several fast sprints with very short recovery (50s or 100s). Repeat 2-3 times.

Day 4. Power run every other week: 4-5 miles almost as fast as you can run that distance in a race.

4a. The alternate week: run ladders (600m, 400m, 200m) or (500m, 300m, 100m). Run 2 repeats, with about five minutes between intervals, and 10 minutes between sets. In other words, 3 sets of ladders, and it can be 3 of the same, or mix up the two. Run at expected mile pace for the 600, 400m, 200m; run at expected 800m pace for the 500m, 300m, 100m.

Day 5. ; Weights ( and if you can, water running for 15 minutes: 5 at 2-mile pace, 3 minutes slower, 3 minutes at mile pace, 1 minute slower, 1 minute at half-mile pace, and 2 minutes slower). Just cup your hands and kind of run. It is great for ligaments and tendons, keeping them in balance with gains in muscle strength from weight training. Also, it maintains or improves both aerobic and anaerobic capacities.

Day 6. Light, or rest. This is Friday, unless your meets are on Friday.

Day 7. Rest or race or time trial, depending on the weather and time of the year.

You can add in morning runs, and increase the mileage by 15-20 miles per week. Usually keep the morning runs steady, unless on a Saturday, and that can be fast, so that the afternoon run is intervals. Great double that way.

As to your injury, I highly recommend water running. Keeps you conditioning while you heal.

I think you over trained on distance. Running long distances is not going to get you fast. Lydiard was about turnover from increasing tempo runs, while cutting back on the distance base. Then he had a peak season, which was all speed work and racing, but didn't last very long. NZ and Australia have 2 racing seasons because they can travel above the equator to the racing seasons. Oregon expects indoor track to compensate for the two seasons. Too many people think Lydiard was about long, slow runs, but those are only part of the training. And not a very big part if one is to become an elite runner.

Hey Not A Golfer,

It sounds like you had a really positive year all things considered. I think this a great training cycle to build on towards futures success once there are actual races to run next year (hopefully). Good luck going forward.

I posted a few months ago that I was going to chase a similar outcome and am coming from a similar place. I am taking a shot at sub-15 tomorrow morning and will report back how it goes.

My tune up "races" were a 15:32 road 5k a month ago on a course with some hills and hairpin turns (I would guess that was worth about 15:15 on the track) 4 weeks ago and an 8:50 3K two weeks ago. The 3k felt comfortable aerobically but I couldn't get my legs to move any faster in the late stages. I am hoping that with the sharpening workouts I did over the last two weeks and a being a little more rested I can find a slight breakthrough and take down my High School PR of 14:57.

Do you know your 400m all out capacity right now? If not make a test and I will tell you

how fast for you is possible to run at 5 k ( with my proper training of course) :)

Best of luck, CArunner12! Nice job on those tune up races, it sounds like you're pretty close!

I ran my 5k TT this morning. Luckily I had a couple other guys from my club to run with. I ended up going out too hard the first 200 (stupid mistake about 33 seconds). End result was a 15:11. Not quite what I wanted but it’s my fastest 5k in 10 years so I am pretty happy with it. I was on pace through 7 laps, lost it on laps 8-11 and was able to close decently the last 600 to out kick the best masters guy in our club who was 2 seconds back.

Thanks for the update! Not a bad effort at all! Be proud that it's the fastest time in 10 years, it shows you've still got the goods. It's a funny thing, I was talking to a friend of mine who was on the same mission as us this fall and he reported the same - 6-7 laps good, loss of focus 8-12. He was shooting for 14:40 and ended up around your time as well. I'm sure that's just the nature of a 5k no matter the setting, but the mental dynamics must change when you are gunning for time. Keeping focus on your splits without a crowd and without a full field of competition to give you energy can be a demoralizing business . Sounds like you are pretty close. Are you planning to continue training and give it another shot? Maybe a fast 3k?

CArunner12 wrote:

I ran my 5k TT this morning. Luckily I had a couple other guys from my club to run with. I ended up going out too hard the first 200 (stupid mistake about 33 seconds). End result was a 15:11. Not quite what I wanted but it’s my fastest 5k in 10 years so I am pretty happy with it. I was on pace through 7 laps, lost it on laps 8-11 and was able to close decently the last 600 to out kick the best masters guy in our club who was 2 seconds back.

The trick is to do many reps in training at the 5 k pace. Then the body`s energy efficiency

improves at that pace . Then lap 8-11 will be peace of a cake still at 5 k race pace and a fast finish.

OP, thank you for all the updates. Great thread. Very useful. Jan Stensson:

You are not the best, Jan. Not by a lot.

And now you are Irish...

Yeah, the best runners use blocks but he doesn't need them because the Swedish troll said so.

STOP INTERFERING WITH GOOD THREADS!

I haven't decided about whether or not to take another shot at it this fall/winter. I was originally planning on doing a mile TT next week followed by a 10K on December 5th or 6th to close out my "season" before getting back into base training for next spring. However, I found an opportunity to race in a real road half marathon on December 6th so I am going to do that in place of the 10K. I will still run the all out mile next week and then focus on a couple of HM specific workouts and see if I can run a PR. My PR is a couple of seconds over 70 minutes so I'll be shooting for sub-70.

Irish master has the same pr's as Running free aka Vincent

You have to give him credit for consistency in times, no, not in the fake handles

But he never lies here and uses fake handles, honestly :)