JFK 50 - questions on gear and shoes (Vaporflies??)

Why JFK for your first ultra? There are so many better first ultras of that distance out there.

Good luck with your shoe choice on the technical terrain. I wish you well. The AT is going to chew those things up, spit them out and leave your feet hurting if you wear them. Trust me, you don't want something with that high stack and lack of grip on that section. You might be okay on the uphill..but the downhill section is going to be an adventure, especially if it's wet at all.

If it were me, I would wear trail shoes with better grip for the first section from the start thru the AT. You could always change into your "road shoes" for the towpath section (crew point/drop bags?). The towpath isn't nicely groomed, crushed gravel/hard packed dirt trail the whole way. There's a good amount of small rocks and gravel type sections on the C&O which just get plain annoying after a while.

I'm not going to help you with hydration/nutrition. That's something you have to figure out on your own. Don't expect a road marathon type setup where there is water every 2 miles. The aid stations will be stocked with every type of food imaginable (or at least were pre-Covid). You can totally get by with just gels for a 50 miles, though.

Why do you not recommend the race? I have family in the area, so it is a convenient choice for me. But the real reason I am running it this year is because my fall marathon got covid-canceled!

The downhill AT portion is what I was worried about, and I would bail on them if it was wet on the day. But thanks for the input regarding the towpath - if it is at all gnarly, then the advantage of the VFs likely goes away.

Regarding aid stations - it looks like they are spaced roughly every 4-5 miles, which seems like it would be sufficient to me... Are there individual bottles or cups of water I can just grab as I run by? I ask because online race reports refer to "filling up" and "waiting" at the aid stations, which seems pretty unpleasant to me.

I think they would probably work, but the AT is kind of unforgiving out there. There's a decent shot you'll sprain something if you're trying to bomb the downhills. The midsole will probably get ripped up, too -- I did a trail race in a different Pebax shoe recently, and the foam was all cut up afterward.

Honestly, any medium height road racer would probably work fine. Just make sure they don't pick up gravel.

You can't wear the 4% on the AT. You need to do what the winner did last year (and many of the guys do) and do a shoe change once you hit the towpath. So basically trail shoe to start and the AT, then switch into the Next% at the towpath and you'll be happy as long as you are efficiently running in them and not all wobbled up and heel-striking due to fatigue.

It's a special event so good luck!

Thanks! Would you recommend someone meet me at Weverton Cliffs exit (around 15 miles in) to do the shoe exchange? Or is there a better location with crowd support access?

Bumping this and sent it to my buddy. He has done this race a few times. Always swapped shoes after the AT. Before has used (and will once again) use something like Hoka Speedgoat and swap into just his typical Hoka (arahi for him). Less focused on carbon fiber goodness and just something comfy to spend that amount of time on his feet. At that pace felt the super shoe wasn’t worth it.

Typically carries a bottle on the AT just to have it. But afterwards relies solely on the stations but don’t do what someone else did, figure out what works for you. Would say you would rather be caught WITH nutrition and without it. Worst case have a small and held and a snack or two. You have time to dial it in. Good luck!

Don't they have a website for all that information you need?

This is a hybrid trail race, I would think Vaporfly's are the wrong choice.

Good luck at your first DNF. At least that's how it looks like, with the questions you ask.

Corin wrote:

You can't wear the 4% on the AT. You need to do what the winner did last year (and many of the guys do) and do a shoe change once you hit the towpath. So basically trail shoe to start and the AT, then switch into the Next% at the towpath and you'll be happy as long as you are efficiently running in them and not all wobbled up and heel-striking due to fatigue.

It's a special event so good luck!

Yeah this is what I remember the winner doing last year. Where a good trail shoe for the AT & then change at the bag drop. Vaporfly's are perfect for the towpath & the time you spend changing is nothing in an ultra.

As for fueling you gotta figure out what works for you. You might want to practice with a handheld or pack. I don't know how far spread out the aid stations are but in some ultras they can be decently far & you'd want something in between them.

Good luck! I've heard great things about JFK -- not sure why folks would discourage it. Seems like a good intro into ultra running.

jfk runner wrote:

Thanks! Would you recommend someone meet me at Weverton Cliffs exit (around 15 miles in) to do the shoe exchange? Or is there a better location with crowd support access?

Weverton is perfect, easy access.

When I ran it ages ago there were no aid stations. A friend's wife turned up somewhere around halfway with some food and water but that was it. Can't tell you how it is now but I will chime in about Vaporflys. I would NOT want to run the bit along the Appalachian Trail and down the Weverton Cliffs in Vaporflys. They seem and feel unstable to me and I can see that as a problem. Once you're onto the Towpath if you're good in VFs you'd likely be fine the rest of the way.

Switch after the AT, read up on if there is any rules on receiving aid outside of aid stations. I will likely be there and just run on kinvaras the whole time. I normally do handheld with GUs and roctane mix. Restock from aid stations, make sure you get enough salt.

RS

accepting aid outside of aid stations is generally against the rules, but if you're just a hobby jogger then nobody will care. if you're gonna be under 7 or 7.5hrs, other people might start to care.

bring a handheld water bottle and refill it at aid stations. start doing your long runs with the identical water bottle you plan to use. get used to fueling and drinking more often.

a shoe change after the AT is probably the way to go unless it's rained in which case you should just wear trail shoes the whole 50 miles.

HRE wrote:

When I ran it ages ago there were no aid stations. A friend's wife turned up somewhere around halfway with some food and water but that was it. Can't tell you how it is now but I will chime in about Vaporflys. I would NOT want to run the bit along the Appalachian Trail and down the Weverton Cliffs in Vaporflys. They seem and feel unstable to me and I can see that as a problem. Once you're onto the Towpath if you're good in VFs you'd likely be fine the rest of the way.

That must have been in 1962.

They have plenty of aid stations according to the website.

AID STATIONS

This year’s JFK 50 Mile will have a minimum of 14 fully stocked Aid Stations on the course. Provisions at these stations will include: colas, electrolyte replace drinks, water, sandwiches, salted items, sweet items, energy gels, energy bars and basic first aid supplies. Some later aid stations may have hot drinks. The tentative locations are at approximately the 4, 10, 16, 20, 22, 25, 27, 30, 34, 38, 42, 44, 46 and 48 mile points.

1972. But I stand by what I said about the Vaporflys unless they've paved the AT there.

How are they planning on holding this race with 1000 people signed up? Social gathering limit is still 50. They've got to cancel it, right? I don't see anything in terms of safety plans on their website.

Source on the 50 limit? I can’t find that for the state or the county it is held in.

Man up and run in Chuck Taylors.

And be sure to take an iron supplement

David 45 wrote:

And be sure to take an iron supplement

And don't listen to David 45.