UK Science Adviser to Government- Lockdown Was a “Monumental Mistake on a Global Scale”

Harsh wrote:

if people in nursing homes die it doesnt matter. they don't add anything to the economy, or to anything.

not saying it wouldn't be a horrible tragedy but that's not a reason to shut down an entire economy and shutter all small business, close schools.

if we woke up tomorrow and everyone that is in a nursing home today was dead, it would have no real affect on the world. it would be sad, but thats it.

This is a harsh way to put it. But some context. If you entered a nursing home when the pandemic started to hit in the US in March you would most likely be dead now even without COVID. Median life expectancy on entering a nursing home is 5 months. The idea that we are unable to understand the difference between a nursing home death and a healthy teenager death is pathetic. They are not the same.

Harsh wrote:

if people in nursing homes die it doesnt matter. they don't add anything to the economy, or to anything.

not saying it wouldn't be a horrible tragedy but that's not a reason to shut down an entire economy and shutter all small business, close schools.

if we woke up tomorrow and everyone that is in a nursing home today was dead, it would have no real affect on the world. it would be sad, but thats it.

This post sums up why LRC would be 1000% better off permanently banning everyone in this thread. Even if you caught a few well-meaning folks in the crossfire, you'd get rid of 90% of the posters who have turned this site into a cesspool.

big "yikes" right there wrote:

Harsh wrote:

if people in nursing homes die it doesnt matter. they don't add anything to the economy, or to anything.

not saying it wouldn't be a horrible tragedy but that's not a reason to shut down an entire economy and shutter all small business, close schools.

if we woke up tomorrow and everyone that is in a nursing home today was dead, it would have no real affect on the world. it would be sad, but thats it.

This post sums up why LRC would be 1000% better off permanently banning everyone in this thread. Even if you caught a few well-meaning folks in the crossfire, you'd get rid of 90% of the posters who have turned this site into a cesspool.

This post sums up why we have this hysteria. People like this have decided that freaking the hell out about COVID is the virtuous and compassionate thing to do. There is no alternate answer science be damned. Anyone who disagrees with my view even if they are well intentioned is evil because I am virtuous.

Open your eyes and re-evaluate your position. The 3.5% death rate CNN told you was a fabrication to drive hysteria. We have now gathered enough info to know that the IFR is nowhere near that. This virus has "killed" .054% of the US population over a time in which .4% would die in a normal year. This is not the black death.

Nursing home deaths should not be counted in the tally. People that die with COVID, not of COVID should not be included in the tally. When you take those two out of the equation, you are left with about 35% of the overall death toll (most of which are fatties that have had their lives artificially prolonged with statins, insulin, beta blockers, etc.). COVID has acted like a cleansing fire in a forest of diseased trees. Mankind will emerge from this stronger. As far as the individual that tried to make the Civil War comparison, The average life expectancy in that era (even before the war) was about 45 years old. The people that are dying of COVID would not have lived long enough to die of COVID because they would not have had their lives artificially prolonged with miracle drugs to make it to that point in time. The lockdowns were largely unnecessary and far more destructive than the virus itself.

If you think Woolhouse is a herd immunity proponent, you are making a big mistake. Woolhouse wants a massive expansion of testing to manage COVID outbreaks instead of using lockdowns. Woolhouse was on the side of locking down the UK and shot down the notion of herd immunity back when Boris was resisting doing anything to stop the outbreak. His point now is that we should be able to manage further outbreaks with a massive testing program and by isolating vulnerable populations instead of resorting to a lockdown. He is generally right except that he is relying on some very limited science on outbreaks in schools and transmission between adults and children. But Woolhouse's position on COVID is that it will be around for a long time and is going to be dangerous. He is not a herd immunity guy or a T cell conspiracy theorist who thinks that COVID will magically disappear by July, wait, by October.

It's a tragedy when a 20 year old dies. It is not a tragedy when an 85 year old dies. How hard is that to understand?

T-cells a conspiracy theory? Just because you're a lawyer with a degree in music and had never heard of a T-cell before 2 weeks ago does not make them a conspiracy theory. This sound science and has been for long before COVID was a thing. Those of us who have STEM degrees have been cringing as the media has been creating this hysteria over antibodies disappearing quickly. You have commentators who have no technical knowledge or background trying to educate a similarly science ignorant public.

Now you are at the point of projecting ridiculous conspiracy theories on all who disagree. No one smart ever said Covid would just disappear. But had we gone the herd immunity route COVID would no longer be impacting our daily lives? If you read Woolhouse's comments he said he was initially for the lockdown as we did not have a better plan at the time but now thinks it is doing far more harm then good. He has updated his opinion on the right course as new evidence and data becomes available. That is something you should try. Holding fast to your original belief in spite of all new evidence is 100% unscientific.

It's not the opinion that's causing the problem.

It's the hundreds of posts per day under various handles on multiple threads that's the problem.

People like Giles Corey/Unkle and Hardloper need to be shown the door, along with their countless alternative alter-egos.

Across the pond wrote:

When will you wrap your head around the challenges of controlling a large population?

NZ is on a freaking island.

Just like everything else a small company, organization, country, state (look at small states in the US) can be easily managed on every level.

Remove CA, NY, IL, FL, TX, etc. and it's a different story.

So the biggest companies and the biggest countries are the worst managed? I'm not sure about the corporate giants - they seem to be doing ok - but that certainly rings true for the US. The advantage NZ has it that it has an intelligent population that respects science; the US, on the other hand ... (But, hey - if cults like Trumpism are your thing then the "land of the free" is the place for you. )

It may also surprise you to know that landlocked nations have borders, just like island nations (and NZ is in fact 4 islands), which they can control. Covid didn't come to the US by illegal immigrants from Mexico - or from the sea - but from Europe and landed at your airports. That's how NZ also controls its borders - at its airports. (Shame about Trump's travel "ban" from China, as the virus came to the US from Europe.) Your problems aren't immigrants and your borders but your corrupt and incompetent leadership and anti-science culture.

huh what wrote:

It's a tragedy when a 20 year old dies. It is not a tragedy when an 85 year old dies. How hard is that to understand?

Spoken like a 20-year old. Especially one who hasn't lost someone who matters to them.

Outside the running threads, this site has become an alt right echo chamber, with its various repellent prejudices.

I would totally be fine with making all COVID threads require you to be a registered user to post. What say you to that? I think that would be a great way to discourage misinformation. I understand you disagree with the opinions of many posters but I think we need opinions from both sides of this debate. I disagree with Precious Roy but I don't see him degrading others or posting information he knows to be untrue. It would be arrogant of me to say he should be banned because I believe my opinion is right and he is wrong.

I'm pushing 40. I've lost all four grandparents. They were old. It wasn't too sad. It's natural to die when you've become old and frail.

I also lost a close friend at 19 in Afghanistan and known several other young people who died in accidents. Those are tragic. Lives cut short.

Lol. you chucklefvcks are so funny to watch. the US as a whole literally had the same response to this pandemic, as we did the 1918-1919 pandemic, with 1918 death curve matching the US death curve almost exactly

All they had back then was nonpharmaceutical interventions. You all would've lived in philadelphia for sure

Do you live in South Korea or NZ? If not, I'd love to hear where you're from. Both those countries are islands (effectively in SK's case, obviously) and NZ has a ridiculously now population and pop density. I honestly think SK is the only viable model that larger countries can aspire to for future pandemics.

As previous posters said, you must be joking. New York has the highest per capita death rate in the entire world by a very large margin. NYC has the highest city per capita death rate, with Lombardy the only place even close. I still wonder what the hell happened in NY.

As for doing well now, NYC has achieved a level of herd immunity. It's estimated 25% of the city has had the disease, and in parts of the Bronx, 60% of people have had the disease. So what you're advocating is herd immunity. Which is fine - just understand that's what you're arguing for.

Again, name the country or we can't take you seriously.

The US ranks below Belgium, Spain, the UK, Italy and Sweden for deaths per capita. Other European countries aren't far behind. In terms of countries that can be depended on to honestly report their numbers (Europe, Aus/NZ, SK and Japan, and Canada) the US is very much in family. I don't believe anything coming out of China, Russia or the developing world in terms of true case numbers or death numbers. China's misinformation alone makes your statement not useful.

Pajac wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I live in a country that has had 22 deaths from Covid, and a lockdown. The UK has had over 40,000 deaths from its spectacular mismanagement of the crisis. The model is clearly the US, which is the world leader - for deaths. 300,000 estimated by December. But it's all a hoax, promoted by "fearmongers and leftists".

It's not a hoax, but its seriousness is criminally inflated by fearmongers like you.

+1.