I will never buy or support France again

Old Man By the Sea wrote, among other things,

"...Only in America could you spout such dribble .."

Why do so many people in the US think than only citizens of the US have freedom of speech? Citizens of many countries of the world enjoy freedom of expression.

Instead of dismissing those who disagree with you as "leftists with a little college under their belt" blah blah blah, why not address their points? Many people with "a little college under their belts" know full well that US foreign policy, particularly in the developing world, has oftentimes been very destructive. The US has systematically aided in the overthrow of elected leaders and has financed, supported and trained military and civilian leaders whose history and legacy parallels Saddam's. That is not debateable -- these are facts. Pointing that out does not make us "less American" or "unpatriotic." An unwillingness to address that part of our history has much to do with why there is anti-American sentiment throughout much of the world.

Bin Laden, Saddam and others >did< receive support from the US two decades ago, when "the enemy of our enemy was our friend." Old man, you and others didn't seem to be too bothered by them then. Now they're disposable. Bush Sr led an invasion of Panama to arrest Noreiga, another dictator we supported until he outlived his usefulness. 5000+ Panamanians died in that invasion.

Old man, I know this is the real world, when all things can't be answered in some obscure college textbook. I've seen the real world myself, in El Salvador to use one example, talking to survivors of a US-backed death squad massacre, just days after bodies were exhumed from the dumping ground. I've seen the contra training manual used in Nicaragua in the 80s, where the US-backed rebels used what they learned by bombing clinics and schools and planting mines that blew up civilian buses.

Sitting around and calling each other "leftist anarchists" and "nazi imperialists", or whatever, doesn't do a damn thing to improve the situation. But neither does denying what US foreign policy has done in the past. Guided by little more than "patriotism" and blindly following our leaders, Republicans or Democrats alike, into wars that indeed CAN BE avoided does a grave disservice to the

"freedom of expression" you, and we all, cherish.

Thank you very much Reginald Denny. I think you defended me quite well and there is no reason for me to elaborate. Thanks again for the support.

old idiot...please....there is possibly a reaso saddam has used chemical weapons on iran, kuwait....proximity...were half way around the world he a) dosent have the reasons to attack us...until this latest diplomacy...and b) dosent have the means of getting chemical weapons over here and deploying them. think before you type...oh wait...your incapable of such.

The 1st thing..you guys keep bringing up what the US has dealt with these rogues in the past...As a world super power one has to deal with these people..I agree that in the past we could have dealt in a better way with these people..but when this was happening there was a fellow with the name of Kohemeni...who had hostages..US hostages..they took our Embassy employees as hostages..that DOES NOT excuse Iraq for using chemicals..but what were we to do ..??..protect Iran while they had our people as hostages.??..I think not..Saddam is the one who used chemicals..not the USA...why do you keep saying Its the USAs fault..then to bring in the Central American situation and because you talked to people down there ..that somehow makes you a expert..??..here is the my point..how would you have handled this situation..are you isolationist..??...are you a pacifist..??...any are ok...but bring a solution..state what you would do...I think 12 years was enough for Saddam..he ignored the UN ...Saddam thought they were a joke....and he was right...they would do nothing..instead of just chanting rhetoric you hear at your marches.....bring a solution ..you sound hysterical and not well thought out....

you keep ignoring those asking for one shred of evidence!

there is zero evidence that saddam used chem weapons on anyone! read the bbc or der speigel this week from some great exposes on what most americans accept as 'truths'

Zero proof that Saddam has ever used chemicals..??..wow..Ive seen the pics..is that enough.??...this isnt worth debating anymore...you are the same people who say the jews made it up..Ill step away

Saddam is just the flavor of the week. For the last couple of years it was Bin Laden, which rightfully it should have been. But, the last time we all knew, he is still alive and kicking. These guys used to be the good guys when we needed them to do our bidding. The current ass-backward administration will come up with someone else in the near future to vent our rage agaisnt. There will never be peace/democracy in the mideast. We just need to leave it to them to fight it out.

dont you people read anything outside of the national enquirer?what pictures?do some research on your own dude... dont believe me or anyone else just spend 15 minutes browsing thru a variety (you pick em) of non-usa media

Old Man By the Sea wrote:

Zero proof that Saddam has ever used chemicals..??..wow..Ive seen the pics..is that enough.??...this isnt worth debating anymore...you are the same people who say the jews made it up..Ill step away

Old Man was just trying to get us riled up. And, in my case, he did a damn good job of it. I am tired of hearing ignorant little shits feed me some bullshit reason why we should be at war when there is one simlple, unjustified as it may be, reason why the millitary is bombing Iraq; OIL! If he had evidence or wanted to honestly debate the war, he wouldnt have decided to "step away." He knows he is wrong and doesnt have any shred of evidence for his bullshit anti-islamic propaganda. There are some people in this country that are a lost cause, such as our president. We just need to use our voices to help the rest of the nation realize that what bush is doing is wrong.

Why dont you curl up with your favorite book "It takes a Village"...look at your Stalin posters...get the crumbs out of your beard...the reason we are bombing Iraq is because they are a rogue nation with chemicals....and they have used chemicals against other humans....whether you like it or not...we are going to bomb them...and free those people...sit in Boulder and scream all you want..We are going to taste victory....you are embarrasing your nation..

Boulderunner wrote:

Old Man was just trying to get us riled up. And, in my case, he did a damn good job of it. I am tired of hearing ignorant little shits feed me some bullshit reason why we should be at war when there is one simlple, unjustified as it may be, reason why the millitary is bombing Iraq; OIL! If he had evidence or wanted to honestly debate the war, he wouldnt have decided to "step away." He knows he is wrong and doesnt have any shred of evidence for his bullshit anti-islamic propaganda. There are some people in this country that are a lost cause, such as our president. We just need to use our voices to help the rest of the nation realize that what bush is doing is wrong.

i didnt realize anti war meant communist...you jack hole. boulder runner...right on....youve seen the piuctures...and pictures tell you what old man, what exact chemical was used, water is a chemical maybe they sprayed water on the people...do some research and dont spout babble.

hey old man, you talk a good game, pro war on a messageboard, why aren't you on frontlines?

of the 535 senate and house reps only 1 has a child on active duty

effing chicken hawk

I served in the U.S.M.C. my little chick-a-dee...read the whole thread next time...But I do agree with your point about the ruling elite we have in our nation..for our elected pols not to have any kids there isnt really surprising..the people who serve arent from those families they are usaully from working class...Do not confuse me with a Republican..I am a independent..and I have had to answer the question 'In case of death who do you want the beneficary to be'....so quit confusing me with little rich conservatives....

"ruling elite"? thats BS. Its not surprising that only 1 of over 500 congressmen have a kid there, simply because the percentage of all americans that are fighting in iraq is very small, due to the fact that there are over 250 million americans.

further, there is no draft. its not like all theres a class of elite draft dodgers in the country. every single person in the US military right now has gone out of their way to join the military.

I dont see a reason to toss around unsubstantiated assertions about a ruling elite.

If you think its just a very small fraction of our population you are nuts....Teachers,cops..firefighters have been decimated by all the reservist who have been called up...If you dont know anybody who was called up you must be living in a rock or your just socially inept....The pols have kids who go to elite colleges and would never think of serving their nation in a combat situation..thats for working class kids..the numbers bear that out..so dont come in here talking smack to me...

GASP!!! You mean little Chelsea Clinton isn't serving? Good lord! Next, you'll tell tell me that the limosuine liberals send their kids to private schools and they aren't on the front lines either.

Won't anyone think about the children?!!!

GASP!!! You mean little Chelsea Clinton isn't serving? Good lord! Next, you'll tell tell me that the limosuine

liberals send their kids to private schools and they aren't on the front lines either. >>

GASP!!! You mean Jenna and Barbara Bush aren't serving?

not surprised after your first several posts to later find out you're a holier-than-thou ex-bullet catch...er, i mean, ex-marine

if you really think there are millions of americans in iraq now, you're nuts, not me. even if there's half a million, which definitely an overestimate, thats still 1 person for every 500 americans.

are there more working class kids in the army than rich kids? yeah, definitely

but you still cant get around the fact every person who is in the military right now chose to be.

plus, do you think there arent any rich kids at west point? i dont.

do you think ROTC programs aren't at "elite" colleges?

i dont. in boston, Harvard, MIT and Tufts have an ROTC program.

do you think its only rich people who cant picture themselves in the army? coming off of a time when the need for a military was being questioned (military spending in the 90's was a lot smaller than it was in the 80's) its hard for ANYONE to see themselves running around with an M-16 shooting people.