There are some other decent posts, but Impala has all of the right answers here. Look no further.
There are some other decent posts, but Impala has all of the right answers here. Look no further.
What am I missing here?
Daniels would set threshold pace for an 18:30 runner at 3:58 /k.
It is not at all uncommon to run a touch faster than threshold ode when doing cruise intervals.
This workout is about spot on.
I’m honestly confused about the advice to slow down a bunch. At most, you should slow down by 3 seconds/k, but that’s fairly close to being within the margin of error considering where you are now.
Keep on keeping on.
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
I find that when your rest intervals are short the repeat intensity is not nearly as high as with high rest anaerobic work so I have not had issues with overtraining using this strategy.
I have not coached nearly as many successful runners as you have, of course, but the ones who have done and are doing short rest work with me all say it makes them in the best aerobic shape of their life.
In my limited non-swim coaching time, I did coach a runner to a 13:23 5k, and a speed skater to the US Olympic team using short rest interval training, and it is a staple of the training strategy for most every swim program in the country.
So I sincerely encourage any track coach I talk with to try adding short rest interval work to their training protocol and see how it can improve their already successful program.
By chance did you coach at Wheaton?
d3 alum wrote:
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
I find that when your rest intervals are short the repeat intensity is not nearly as high as with high rest anaerobic work so I have not had issues with overtraining using this strategy.
I have not coached nearly as many successful runners as you have, of course, but the ones who have done and are doing short rest work with me all say it makes them in the best aerobic shape of their life.
In my limited non-swim coaching time, I did coach a runner to a 13:23 5k, and a speed skater to the US Olympic team using short rest interval training, and it is a staple of the training strategy for most every swim program in the country.
So I sincerely encourage any track coach I talk with to try adding short rest interval work to their training protocol and see how it can improve their already successful program.
By chance did you coach at Wheaton?
No, I did so intentionally ?
Smoove wrote:
What am I missing here?
Daniels would set threshold pace for an 18:30 runner at 3:58 /k.
It is not at all uncommon to run a touch faster than threshold ode when doing cruise intervals.
This workout is about spot on.
I’m honestly confused about the advice to slow down a bunch. At most, you should slow down by 3 seconds/k, but that’s fairly close to being within the margin of error considering where you are now.
Keep on keeping on.
You’re right. I had the math wrong in my head. 3:55/k is just about perfect for CI session.
Smoove wrote:
What am I missing here?
Daniels would set threshold pace for an 18:30 runner at 3:58 /k.
It is not at all uncommon to run a touch faster than threshold ode when doing cruise intervals.
This workout is about spot on.
I’m honestly confused about the advice to slow down a bunch. At most, you should slow down by 3 seconds/k, but that’s fairly close to being within the margin of error considering where you are now.
Keep on keeping on.
You and I know the maths Smoove. Cheers! How goes with your injury? Coming back?
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
I find that when your rest intervals are short the repeat intensity is not nearly as high as with high rest anaerobic work so I have not had issues with overtraining using this strategy.
I have not coached nearly as many successful runners as you have, of course, but the ones who have done and are doing short rest work with me all say it makes them in the best aerobic shape of their life.
In my limited non-swim coaching time, I did coach a runner to a 13:23 5k, and a speed skater to the US Olympic team using short rest interval training, and it is a staple of the training strategy for most every swim program in the country.
So I sincerely encourage any track coach I talk with to try adding short rest interval work to their training protocol and see how it can improve their already successful program.
The training method or type of training workout that I haven`t tried out as a Swedish national elite runner during my years doesn`t exist.The type of workout you describe has been used by many in history with good results , but that doesn`t mean it`s the best way to perform an interval .
The heart is the most important muscle in the cardio vascular system. Without a strong heart you can`t run or swim fast for a long time. The heart grows strongest with the very best stroke volume if it gets enough rest to be able to create this stroke volume. If you interrupts this phase of rest needed, you will not get the very best possible result. The rest period ( the real interval) is at least as important as the effort ( the reps).
My take is, your 5k time must be lower than 18:30, if you can run 6x1k @3:35k.
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
I find that when your rest intervals are short the repeat intensity is not nearly as high as with high rest anaerobic work so I have not had issues with overtraining using this strategy.
I have not coached nearly as many successful runners as you have, of course, but the ones who have done and are doing short rest work with me all say it makes them in the best aerobic shape of their life.
In my limited non-swim coaching time, I did coach a runner to a 13:23 5k, and a speed skater to the US Olympic team using short rest interval training, and it is a staple of the training strategy for most every swim program in the country.
So I sincerely encourage any track coach I talk with to try adding short rest interval work to their training protocol and see how it can improve their already successful program.
Can speed skating and swim workouts translate directly to running workouts? I mean yeah the heart and lungs only know the muscles need oxygenated blood regardless of the activity. But running stresses your muscular-skeletal system more. Hence the injury concern if forcing a shorter recovery.
Runner10287 wrote:
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
I find that when your rest intervals are short the repeat intensity is not nearly as high as with high rest anaerobic work so I have not had issues with overtraining using this strategy.
I have not coached nearly as many successful runners as you have, of course, but the ones who have done and are doing short rest work with me all say it makes them in the best aerobic shape of their life.
In my limited non-swim coaching time, I did coach a runner to a 13:23 5k, and a speed skater to the US Olympic team using short rest interval training, and it is a staple of the training strategy for most every swim program in the country.
So I sincerely encourage any track coach I talk with to try adding short rest interval work to their training protocol and see how it can improve their already successful program.
Can speed skating and swim workouts translate directly to running workouts? I mean yeah the heart and lungs only know the muscles need oxygenated blood regardless of the activity. But running stresses your muscular-skeletal system more. Hence the injury concern if forcing a shorter recovery.
When applying short rest swim training to both runners and speed skaters I do have to adapt the program. The nature of water borne work (gravity neutral) allows a much greater volume of training (which the "gravity positive" sports do not permit) and the deceleration time from running and skating repeats requires a longer rest period than swimming.
Regarding injury concerns: in my long swim coaching career I had swimmers at times who suffered overuse injuries when they swam long distance repeats, but when that long distance was broken into short repeats with short rest they could build their endurance base effectively without injury. I have found that same strategy to be helpful with a couple of my runners who tended to get injured under traditional running programs.
retired swimming coach wrote:
Have you really ever tried including short rest interval work in your training on a regular basis (like twice a week for a whole season) for aerobic improvement? I am not familiar with any track or xc coaches or programs that do, so please let me know of those that do.
When I was in college, the club staple was "three minute runs" in a park every Monday lunchtime, autumn and spring. We'd start the semester with 6 reps (=18min hard work) and about 2 minutes recovery, and aim to bring it gradually down to 30 seconds recovery. The best guys in the club built up to 8 reps. Perfect preparation for cross country, 5k and 10k
I'm not a coach, but got very fit in my 40s (world masters medal at 5000, better than I did in age-grade terms than in my 20s), and a couple of short-recovery sessions were staples
One kind I would call "broken tempo". If you're mentally tired or busy, a 20-30 minute tempo session requires quite a lot of concentration, and one only has so much mental energy in the tank. But break it into mile reps with maybe 30sec in between, and it gets much easier mentally.
The other kind would be to run 40 seconds fast, and 40sec jog, building up from about 16 reps to 32 reps; or, on the track, 200-300m intervals with 100m jog recovery. I'd see this as "the miler's tempo run", you keep a good heart rate throughout but you also get tons of practice running smoothly at 3000 pace or even 1500 pace.
IMHO this is the kind of conditioning work you want in the base phase - the short rests prevent you getting deep into lactate. Later on, middle distance guys need to dig deeper into oxygen debt and fatigue and run faster reps, which of course means much longer recoveries.
plenty of responses for the training question so I'll leave that to the "experts"
shoes are more my thing anyway.
I think it's a good idea to do workouts in a different shoe than you use for easy runs, and in the case of carbon-plated shoes, a different shoe than you'd race in (for financial reasons).
ideally you'd do workouts in your race shoes but recently the racing shoe market is going crazy and making $200 shoes which I wouldn't want to waste on a workout. If you can afford it, go for it.
If you train in the Nike Infinity React and the Saucony Guide, consider a shoe like the NB1500 for workouts, or the Saucony Kinvara (cheaper, softer). The kinvaras should be available for like $60 online right now in version 10. great workout shoe and you don't need to warmup/cooldown in separate shoes. Otherwise you could pick up some more traditional flats like the NB1500, NB1400, Nike Streak, Adidas Adios/Boston, etc which you may or may not be able to jog in for the rest of your workout depending on your preferences.
Most coaches recommend gradually reducing the rests over the course of a training year with less emphasis on increasing the pace after a period of adjustment. I've long adopted the habit of decreasing the rest or increasing the distance of reps significantly on days I am incapable of hitting target paces. As you are heading toward goal races, you should probably be running intervals on 1 min max rest. Some high D1 coaches have runners doing 45 second recovery (or 100 jog) on 16-20x400s and 8x800s. With recovery to 120 bpm, I suspect that I'd be getting 30 seconds rest most of the time.