Wishing a Happy Birthday to Daniel Komen, current World Record holder in the 3000m... but, where did he go?

Why does a rapid decline show evidence of doping? Explain the link.

If the argument is that he stopped doping and experienced a rapid decline I would say ok, that is a fair point. However as you pointed out yourself, there was no test for EPO until many years later. So why stop? Why stop doping why stop training? Especially as you believe others continued.

To your second point about Komen/ElG/Kipchoge/Bekele I'm simply going to say Coe/Ovett/Cram. All from England; population under 50 mil. The Africans at least were from a continent!

I've said this before when arguing with you and others have too. You can't keep changing your argument to try and make yourself right. It is weak. And you can't argue both ways on the same point.

I'm probably much younger than you so don't hold your breath old man.

Coevett wrote:

That's a straight up lie. EPO tests only became moderately effective around 2005, which is why El G retired that year. (Attempted a comeback in 2008 on the roads in a 10K and ran 35:XX, presumably without EPO).

There was still virtually no testing for the likes of Bekele. He could have been full throttle for a decade since his boyhood and the in-competition testing in 2005 would have been fairly easy to skirt around. He would have had no out of competition testing in Epiopia.

You are an extreme liar of the highest order.

Everyone with one brain cell knows the story of El Gs Olympic rollercoaster journey and know he only remained in the sport to get that Olympic Gold. Once he achieved double Olympic Gold in 2004 he immediately retired.

He did not attempt a comeback!

El G's 10k in 2008:

“I am here to participate in this race to celebrate the pleasure of running. I am here to share the same passion that unites me with the 4500 runners who will take part.”

“When I was a professional athlete, I was running for the performance, for the medals. Here, it’ll be different. I will be able to enjoy it, look at the public, and be with the crowd of runners. I miss these feelings because I’ve never experienced them.”

You are a liar and this once again proves to everyone you talk out of your arsehole.

You are really stupid with this message.

Do you think that El Guerrouj needed a 10k road race to understand that he was in 36;00 shape? He was a former pro athlete who was not competing.

If he trained a little bit for this 10k he knew he was not running at a high level at all and only took part for the fun as a hobby jogger like he said before the race.

Your attempt to paint it at a comeback attempt by El Guerrouj is absolutely laughable and the perfect exemple of absolute bad faith.

You are the only one lying. EPO test existed in 2000.

You are moving your goal post and changing you arguments on the spot, if I sum up all your claims:

1) Komen was heavily doped with EPO, he feared for his life and stopped taking it, and therefore become a very poor runner. He was very low level without EPO and world class with it.

2) El Guerrouj doped with EPO and then fled when the tests became effective in 2005 right after accomplishing his lifetime goal of olympic medals. Without EPO El Guerrouj is a hobby jogger of 36 min 10k according to you.

3) Bekele was/is doping with EPO even after the tests existed, and even after the test "became effective" according to you, he still won olympics and championship medals , setting world leading times until injuries crippled him and he moved to road racing where he had several great marathon performances, including the 2nd best performance ever 2 seconds away from the world record, at 37 years old.

So what's your argument, Bekele avoided the the effective tests, or is he the only person where the EPO has a modest increase of performance when you are claiming at the same time that both Komen and El Guerrouj were nothing without EPO?

Make up your mind, or at least find a decent explanation for all your claims. So far it's baseless and lame rant about africans being so much better than british runners and Ingebrigtsen.

I find it amusing that you are not speaking about Mo Farah, the most obvious cheat of the sport. The journeyman turning into the invincible runner at 28 years old, when prime athletic on the trac is way sooner than that..... His coach has been banned from the sport for doping violations.

Whereas you talk out of your latest roid injection hole in your ar$$e.

Keep selectively quoting part of the interview like Spade Defector did. People can read the rest of it where it says he intended to 'make his marathon debut' the following year, and that he attempted to stay with the leaders before (he himself admits) he found he couldn't hang with them.

This was the same guy who won the Olympic gold medal in the 5000m just 3 years earlier beating Bekele and Kipchoge!

You really are a disgusting individual. You claim that everybody dopes and cheats given the opportunity, then defend the most obvious dopers of the period when there was no testing for EPO. You boast that there was no testing at BMC meetings and that Anthony Whiteman was a doper, and then claim that you yourself never doped.

I already posted the answer for Komen’s decline, with sources.

I think you fools need a permanently stickied thread to bash each other in.

donkeydoug wrote:

I already posted the answer for Komen’s decline, with sources.

I think you fools need a permanently stickied thread to bash each other in.

I was your explanation for Komen and it is the correct one.

But Coevett think that Komen was a low talent who disappeared just because he feared for his life. What we can do with him?

Komen got off with a 'excessive caffeine' doping charge in 97 after his lawyers successfully claimed that he had a physiological disorder that resulted him having caffeine spikes from drinking a couple of cups of tea. Reminds me of Canova's defences for EPO doped Kenyans.

https://apnews.com/fcce3d59d78bdd9f9e2e199d17d8a472

Bad Wigins wrote:

Moving backwards wrote:

How are you people still saying "have ran?" Is English not your first language?

The use of the infinitive in the past participle, i.e. "have run," is a holdover from old English, i.e. irregular. It is destined to be replaced by the preterite which normally is used as past participle, e.g. "has destroyed," "has humiliated," "has sent home devastated."

We here at LRC, experts at all things running, are also guiding the inevitable evolution of the usage of running terms.

Sorry, but "have ran" is always incorrect. You sound illiterate when you say that.

Yet again good old Coevett made a clown of himself and bared his racism for all to see. The idea that Komen would be doping at age 20 then get a conscience and stop doping at 24 is ridiculous especially when you consider that he never even had a chance to run at the Olympics.

The reasons for Komen's rapid decline have been documented many times on this and other forums. He literally ran himself into the ground. That article from the podium states that he was not only racing every two days in different countries but also going after records each time he raced. Not only would he run in too many races, but he would go out hard in every race. A bad recipe for longevity.

The 1990s was a time when many Kenyan athletes ran themselves into the ground rapidly. It was not just Komen:

1. Ishamel Kirui won the world championships at 19 and again at 21 then faded away

2. His brother Richard Chelimo set a world record in the 10K then faded away

3. Japtheth Kimutai was Commonweath champ at age 20, ran in the 1:42 range at age 21 and was washed up by age 22

4. The Defector Stephen Cherono aka Shaheen not only ran too much but ran with injuries. You could tell he was running with an injury. In later years he admitted that when he was 21 he thought he was invincible.

4. Sally Barsosio was a world championship bronze medalist at age 15, a world champion at age 19 and was washed up soon after that.

5. Lydia Cheromei was a world junior champion at age 13 and was finished by 19

There were many other cases. In the 1990s it was very common to see Kenyans race every two days. I

The cases of Barsosio and Cheromei are especially instructive. The mentality of Kenyans in those days was to run, run and run. Coaches encouraged it. Agents encouraged it because it put more money in their pocket. Cheromei would say in years later that too much running was her downfall. Both were washed up before age 20

Coevett wrote:

Kim McDonald died aged 45 in 2001, so I seriously doubt he coached Ovett or Walker in any meaningful way. Perhaps Walker right at the end of his career. He managed Ovett I assume very late in his career. He did coach Peter Elliott, but frankly Elliott's late career success is what you would expect from somebody who had been working hard manual labour in a steelworks full-time up until the 88 Olympics.

I've never said every coach/manager of a doped athlete was guilty of doping them. From reading Canova here, I doubt very much he has every knowingly involved himself in any doping of his athletes. But you can see from his comments that he is in denial about doping in East Africa. Kim McDonald may have been the same.

Look, there can be a rogue doper in any group. Me, Canova, McDonald if he were here would all say that. However, where doping is most prevalent is where it is done systematically. That is what happened in Russia, the Soviet Union, China, Morocco and yes select training groups in the USA, Spain and so on.

Where I can't see eye-to-eye with you is you seem to grade these things purely on performance and not contextual clues. Komen was not only managed by Kim McDonald, he trained in a group run by him with Bob Kennedy and others. That group has never had suspicion attached to them except for people skeptical of their times. Ditto the Rongai Athletics Club at this moment, or Patrick Sang/Kipchoge's outfit. Now it's possible all these groups are doped but many years later nothing has emerged whether it be tests, anonymous testimonials or what have you. Meanwhile there've been legitimate doping red flags with Jama Aden and that group, Alberto Salazar, Bernard Lagat and his positive A sample, Trevor Graham, Dennis Mitchell, Said Aouita and athletes associated with him, athletes managed by the Rosas and so on.

Did Coevett have his post deleted?

Such bare-faced lying is unbelievable.

The entire article, the head line the quotes the interview the analysis, all stating that El G ran a 10k road race as a mass participant for fun. Coevett sees one line about "marathon debut" and fabricated a story that El G was moving to the marathon as a professional but couldn't without EPO. Completely false.

A debut is the first time you do anything, does not have to be as a professional. Coevett is just a liar.

The guy is thick as fck.

Article is entitled "just for the love of the sport". Whole piece has multiple quotes of El G ahead of the race saying he is there to have fun and be a mass participant. Just gonna enjoy it for the love of running.

Coevett racist filter interprets "serious 10k debut fails for doping Moroccan".

So Mottram's 2:28 marathon in 2016 was evidence of his limits without doping, too? Running a marathon is not synonymous to coming out of retirement, least of all for a miler.

ex-runner wrote:

spade detector wrote:

What is dubious about the importance of pointing out that you have zero credibility? You lied about him making a competitive comeback. It's in your own quotes.

“I am no longer a professional, I am just an amateur who enjoys running a couple of times a week but hasn’t run much these last few weeks. Today I really enjoyed being part of the crowd.”

The guy is thick as fck.

Article is entitled "just for the love of the sport". Whole piece has multiple quotes of El G ahead of the race saying he is there to have fun and be a mass participant. Just gonna enjoy it for the love of running.

Coevett racist filter interprets "serious 10k debut fails for doping Moroccan".

Thick yes. Liar yes. Credible no.

Man Overboard wrote:

Alcoholism, sadly.

This is sadly what happened! Alcoholism. Same problem as many famous people in history.

He couldn't take the fame and the big money in the best way. Today I know he lives in Kenya and

help and coach some upcoming young runners. Not many months back I chat with him and he asked if I could help him to get races outside Kenya for his runners.

The man who knows the most when it comes to world class running. wrote:

Man Overboard wrote:

Alcoholism, sadly.

This is sadly what happened! Alcoholism. Same problem as many famous people in history.

He couldn't take the fame and the big money in the best way. Today I know he lives in Kenya and

help and coach some upcoming young runners. Not many months back I chat with him and he asked if I could help him to get races outside Kenya for his runners.

If he was a doper? Don't believe so. He was a God-given talent!