Wishing a Happy Birthday to Daniel Komen, current World Record holder in the 3000m... but, where did he go?

Probably because he feared that if he continued to full throttle dope, that he wouldn't live to reach the year 2020.

Same thing happened to Morceli. They decided to stop taking EPO and their sudden drop in performances when they should have been at their peak reflected that.

In the late 90's, it still wasn't clear you could full throttle with EPO for more than a few years without dropping dead. In fact, there was some evidence or signs (from.both cycling and athletics) that you couldn't.

Komen with EPO :

3000m age 20 - 7:20

5000m age 21 - 12:39

Komen without EPO :

3000m age 25 - 7:43

3000m age 28 - 8:04

5000m age 27 13:28

Morceli with EPO :

1500m age 25 - 3:27

3000m age 24 - 7:24

Morceli without EPO :

1500m age 26 - 3:30

1500m age 28 - 3:33

1500m age 30 - 3:38

3000m age 26 - 7:37

Coevett wrote:

Komen with EPO :

3000m age 20 - 7:20

5000m age 21 - 12:39

Komen without EPO :

3000m age 25 - 7:43

3000m age 28 - 8:04

5000m age 27 13:28

Morceli with EPO :

1500m age 25 - 3:27

3000m age 24 - 7:24

Morceli without EPO :

1500m age 26 - 3:30

1500m age 28 - 3:33

1500m age 30 - 3:38

3000m age 26 - 7:37

Likely, but do you have any evidence other than performance? Has the use of EPO been documented? I'd be curious to know if there is any proof.

I've read that once he had made some money, he lost the motivation to train hard.

BackBay74 wrote:

...

Likely, but do you have any evidence other than performance? Has the use of EPO been documented? I'd be curious to know if there is any proof.

Here's what we know:

1) Throughout the 20th and 21st centuries, all sports have had issues with doping

2) Starting in the early 1990s, EPO was the choice for endurance athletes, and for about a decade, it was completely undetectable. You could dope with impunity.

3) In the 1990s, all major distance records were completely re-written. Most are still records 20 to 25 years later.

How much proof do you need?

Additional info: Even though it was "possible" to test for EPO by 2000 Olympics, it wasn't until about 2008 Olympics where it was better with the introduction of CERA. The times achieved between 2000 and 2008 are also EPO fueled, although I it wasn't quite as "with impunity" as it used to be.

And to this day, microdosing is the way to go. Keep it just below the levels of detectablity. You might argue that it's working even better, see "Marathon World Records" for proof of this.

Or consider that he ran 7:20 at age 20. Let's suppose he was clean even though there was no testing for EPO.

What would he have ran at age 24 if he had 'stayed motivated' AND gone full throttle with EPO? Sub 7 minutes?

There still isn’t any evidence he failed or proof of EPO useage tho.

IPlayTrackFoundation wrote:

There still isn’t any evidence he failed or proof of EPO useage tho.

Who cares? There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that he must have been doping. Most reasonable and intelligent people form their beliefs about the world on probabilities inferred from a number of facts and observations. There is no proof that you're not a brain in a vat, but a mountain of facts and observations which would lead any sane person not to even entertain the thought (aside from as a thought experiment in a philosophy class).

Coevett wrote:

Probably because he feared that if he continued to full throttle dope, that he wouldn't live to reach the year 2020.

Same thing happened to Morceli. They decided to stop taking EPO and their sudden drop in performances when they should have been at their peak reflected that.

In the late 90's, it still wasn't clear you could full throttle with EPO for more than a few years without dropping dead. In fact, there was some evidence or signs (from.both cycling and athletics) that you couldn't.

It is amusing that you are grappling with two contrary ideas:

1) You think that Komen, Morcelli and other in the 90's were doped because EPO could not be tested and you think that they suddendly stopped taking drugs once they became successfull because they feared that they would die.

2) You are constantly calling all africans and especially kenyans dopers. Even 20 years after EPO could be tested. Now, not only they are taking drugs for their whole career without fearing to die (according to you) , but they do it even wil all the tests done.

You should select a positon and stick to it. Defending both make your whole argumentation fragile.

Komen was a special talent even for his time, regardless of what you think (you claim that all were doped), and he burned out quickly. Whether he lost focus and motivation once he became successful or whether he destroyed himselfs with insane schedule and record attempts left and right remain to be known.

Coevett wrote:

IPlayTrackFoundation wrote:

There still isn’t any evidence he failed or proof of EPO useage tho.

Who cares? There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that he must have been doping. Most reasonable and intelligent people form their beliefs about the world on probabilities inferred from a number of facts and observations. There is no proof that you're not a brain in a vat, but a mountain of facts and observations which would lead any sane person not to even entertain the thought (aside from as a thought experiment in a philosophy class).

The question Coevett is , who did not dope? You would find a way to remove hundred of the best all time lists until you can place Ingebrigtsen somewhere.

Coevett wrote:

Or consider that he ran 7:20 at age 20. Let's suppose he was clean even though there was no testing for EPO.

What would he have ran at age 24 if he had 'stayed motivated' AND gone full throttle with EPO? Sub 7 minutes?

Or consider that Coe ran 1:41 at age 24. Let's suppose he was clean even though there was no testing for doping.

What would he have ran at age 25 if he had 'stayed healthy ' AND gone full throttle with doping? Sub 1:39 minutes?

Coevett wrote:

IPlayTrackFoundation wrote:

There still isn’t any evidence he failed or proof of EPO useage tho.

Who cares? There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that he must have been doping. Most reasonable and intelligent people form their beliefs about the world on probabilities inferred from a number of facts and observations. There is no proof that you're not a brain in a vat, but a mountain of facts and observations which would lead any sane person not to even entertain the thought (aside from as a thought experiment in a philosophy class).

Your disregard for a request for evidence, and then your running off into a tirade down some epistemiological rabbit hole, is not likely to help your cause at all.

If you'd treat questions seriously, there is some decent chance people might treat you more seriously.

He probably made a decent amount of money through a shoe contract, appearance fees, prize money an WR bonuses. And he was World champion one year. That was 60k US back in 1997.

I think it's probably hard to maintain WR level fitness for more than a few years.

Has any distance runner ever set WR's consistently, say in a 1 decade period?

Even Coe was quite impressive running WR's in 1979 and an indoor WR in 1983.

That's 5 seasons. That's a fairly long period of time.

Komen set amazing records but it would be hard to have maintained that for much longer. As another poster said, I think he lost motivation. There have been articles about this.

El Geurouj (mispelled his name) was pretty remarkable running 3:26 in 1998 I believe and then close to it in 2004. Near WR form for 7 seasons. Yet even he didn't set more than a few WR's and not one every year.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I've read that once he had made some money, he lost the motivation to train hard.

This is what I also heard from a guy who trained in his group.

Guy I know never saw or heard that Komen doped, I guess it's still possible.

He was world class at 18 when he came second at World Junior XC, definitely a monster talent.

Were Kenyan juniors doping? Again possible but these guys aren't sophisticated, it would have gotten out.

That sub 8 minute 2 mile should have been way more hyped, that was phenomenal. Even if the 7:20 was better, the average person should have been blown away by a sub 8 2 mile.

I met Daniel Komen at a random shoe store event in East Tennessee in 2013, was very weird. Unfortunately wasn't really into running that much at the time, so I didn't really realize what he had done, drugs or otherwise. He was pretty fat, but not by Tennessee standards.

PresidentTrump wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I've read that once he had made some money, he lost the motivation to train hard.

This is what I also heard from a guy who trained in his group.

Guy I know never saw or heard that Komen doped, I guess it's still possible.

He was world class at 18 when he came second at World Junior XC, definitely a monster talent.

Were Kenyan juniors doping? Again possible but these guys aren't sophisticated, it would have gotten out.

That sub 8 minute 2 mile should have been way more hyped, that was phenomenal. Even if the 7:20 was better, the average person should have been blown away by a sub 8 2 mile.

Yeah I guess it's still possible that he doped despite a random guy that trained in his group told you he never saw him injecting needles.

Of course it would have gotten out if junior xcountry guys in Kenya doped. The 16 year old who was busted last year must have been set up by the same guys as did Kiprop. Kiprop was a talented xcountry junior. Did he dope then? I guess it's possible but it would have gotten out. So it's possible he doped but I think El K is right and he was framed. And Greg is right too. El G and Coe are the only runners in history to do well for more than a couple of seasons, and even Coe lost motivation in 81 when he bought his house in Surrey.

It's completely normal to break doped world records by 5 seconds at the height of the EPO era and be back to running High School times 3 or 4 years later at 25. I guess it's possible he doped bit I knew a guy who lived in the same town as a brother of one of Komen's schoolmates, and he told me he was always fast. But I guess it"s possible. Anything is possible I guess.

It's amazing to think the four fastest runners in history. Komen, Bekele, El G, and Kipchoge all appeared at the brief height of full throttle doping. I guess it's possible one of them doped but I doubt it because it would have gotten out by now. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

If he would have ran a sub 1:45 800 and a sub 60 half marathon then he'd be up there with range GOAT Augustine Choge.

He'll have to settle with being the untouchable legend of a fairly minor event, albeit a performance widely recognized as the best in distance track.

Some.of you guys are incredibly naive.

You accept that if his decline had a legit reason (nothing to do with doping) then it was because he 'lost motivation'.

In other words, you think he was 100% financially motivated He had no desire to chase Olympic medals. He had no desire to get back his 5000m WR. As soon as he could buy a house, he was done with training.

Yet such a person wouldn't take EPO when it was on sale over the counter in every Iten pharmacy for a dollar, there was no testing, and we know for sure lots in that period definitely were taking it ( or were caught when testing came in)????

99% he lost the motivation to risk his life as soon as he achieved a substantial fortune (by Kenyan standards).

You find more likely that Komen would suddenly stop doping after two years and after having found success?

I dont say that he wasnt doped but it would have make no sense for him to stop and disappear if he wasnt caught.