Toni Reavis pens 1,500 word essay decrying NY Times "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" article as BULLSHIT

LetsRun.com wrote:

Toni Reavis admits blacks don't run distance as much as whites in the US, but it's not a grand conspiracy.

I didn't know there was a gatekeeper for opinions on running and race, nor that it was a middle-aged white guy. Glad we found the authority.

Just kidding. It's interesting to see the site's official account waving around this guy's blog as "evidence" in an opinion-based discussion. Case closed!

I found both articles interesting, because they both looked at the same issue from a different perspective - and it might be because the writers came from a different cultural and racial background. The op ed piece saw jogging as often exclusionary of black people, while the article in response said - yes, it may look a bit that way because black participation is low but it isn't "purposely" exclusionary. I suspect they are both right.

Sports are a cultural pursuit - they aren't just technical activities in a social and cultural vacuum. There are a whole bunch of reasons why people participate in some sports less than others. The op ed writer may have been wide of the mark to suggest the running community doesn't welcome black runners but when an activity has a high cultural bias that can discourage those who don't feel they would fit in. Or they may simply not relate to it - they don't have the role models - like parents or brothers and sisters who participate.

The response article showed that the author had only goodwill to black Americans participating. But as we saw from the other thread, which had to be closed down because of the nature of some of its comments, there are people out there that don't have that goodwill. There are black runners who have talked about bring called the "n" word when they run. I'm white and I can see it - I can easily imagine how an African American would experience that. And it's out there still. Is it surprising that sports - even recreational jogging - will reflect the wider culture they come from?

LetsRun.com wrote:

Toni Reavis admits blacks don't run distance as much as whites in the US, but it's not a grand conspiracy.

https://tonireavis.com/2020/05/15/op-eds-have-sometimes-excluded-broader-perspectives/

Hi Rojo. No one SAID it was a grand conspiracy. Also, love how the defining opinion is whatever YOU believe

ready made wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

Toni Reavis admits blacks don't run distance as much as whites in the US, but it's not a grand conspiracy.

https://tonireavis.com/2020/05/15/op-eds-have-sometimes-excluded-broader-perspectives/

Hi Rojo. No one SAID it was a grand conspiracy. Also, love how the defining opinion is whatever YOU believe

Actually the title of the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" which means it is a conspiracy. How else would black people be excluded?

ready made wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

Toni Reavis admits blacks don't run distance as much as whites in the US, but it's not a grand conspiracy.

https://tonireavis.com/2020/05/15/op-eds-have-sometimes-excluded-broader-perspectives/

Hi Rojo. No one SAID it was a grand conspiracy. Also, love how the defining opinion is whatever YOU believe

This.

Interesting that the original article wasn't posted on the homepage but this one was.

BlackManOver50 wrote:

I for one would love to hear you cite examples of what exactly Reavis does not understand. Which loop is he out of?

??? You mean if I run around spewing myopic BS from my own perspective without beginning to empathize with others, and I come to the incorrect conclusions about the experiences of others and wildly misrepresent their reality, and I publish this on my own website and have people agreeing with me...

it is up to YOU to provide examples of why I'm wrong?

Seriously, that's what you propose.

It's a real time-saver to be able to identify content for what it is and move on, rather than researching Toni Reavis' blog sources (which is his own thoughts, anyway). There's no way to objectively prove Toni Reavis is blowing smoke, because it's a fvcking op-ed. Dolt.

Engage with ideas, stop trying to be right.

Of course you will tell me that they were just trolling wrote:

The nyt article may be flawed. However, I would like to present the previous thread about it, which had to be locked due to the massive amount of overt racism being posted to it, as an example to show that maybe the running community does gave a bit of a racism problem.

Go ahead. We deleted and banned the guy who was posting the racist stuff.

FightFor15 wrote:

& we wonder why LRC has a problem with race, promoting trash like this.

I was waiting for someone to imply Toni was racist. He is married to a black woman.

rojo wrote:

FightFor15 wrote:

& we wonder why LRC has a problem with race, promoting trash like this.

I was waiting for someone to imply Toni was racist. He is married to a black woman.

lol Rojo you are a joke. Why does Weldon still let you post here?

rojo wrote:

FightFor15 wrote:

& we wonder why LRC has a problem with race, promoting trash like this.

I was waiting for someone to imply Toni was racist. He is married to a black woman.

You couldn't even make these posts up if you tried.

Reavis is a fine race announcer, mostly because he only has to be better than Rawson. However, he's really an out-of-touch reactionary reporter now. Sort of a Skip Bayless Lite for running. He's exactly as insulated by privilege as the founders of Letsrun, regardless of who he's married to.

It's a shame. Naturally it's a very sensitive topic and it's hard to discuss without someone getting defensive. It seems more people are far more outraged at something being described as racist rather than about actual racism.

Most people clearly think judging someone on their background is wrong and take it very personally when this is leveled at them. These people must realize racism isn't about using certain words or being deliberately exclusionary. It's about who and what is considered mainstream.

African Americans are never considered archetypal of society. When the running boom started think of the people who participated. Because this group is frequently considered typical, it's perceived as universal but if black people had started the jogging craze, white people most likely would have thought of it as a curious, niche interest - much like fencing, or yachting

There's so little cultural flow between groups (not just racial groups) this is ultimately the problem.

Additional the original article was principally about race but did mention what it's like to be "running while a woman".

A lot of the replies on this thread have focused upon a man's perspective (no surprise generally forums do). It seems to me a women's experience of being harassed and of threat to safety is very similar to that of being black. I can only imagine what it's like to be both black and a woman out running.

Giles Corey wrote:

ready made wrote:

Hi Rojo. No one SAID it was a grand conspiracy. Also, love how the defining opinion is whatever YOU believe

Actually the title of the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" which means it is a conspiracy. How else would black people be excluded?

Coincidence isn't a conspiracy. Oceans have always excluded forests. Both lack inclusive, nurturing elements for those excluded via multiple unrelated factors, many if not all of which are without intent.

Rojo likes to believe we're in a post-racial society because he has black friends, had black college classmates, sees whites married to blacks, Obama was elected president twice, etc. ad nauseum. He's delusional.

shinner wrote:

rojo wrote:

I was waiting for someone to imply Toni was racist. He is married to a black woman.

You couldn't even make these posts up if you tried.

lol

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Actually the title of the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" which means it is a conspiracy. How else would black people be excluded?

Coincidence isn't a conspiracy. Oceans have always excluded forests. Both lack inclusive, nurturing elements for those excluded via multiple unrelated factors, many if not all of which are without intent.

Rojo likes to believe we're in a post-racial society because he has black friends, had black college classmates, sees whites married to blacks, Obama was elected president twice, etc. ad nauseum. He's delusional.

Well said

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Giles Corey wrote:

Hi Rojo. No one SAID it was a grand conspiracy. Also, love how the defining opinion is whatever YOU believe

Actually the title of the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" which means it is a conspiracy. How else would black people be excluded?

Coincidence isn't a conspiracy.

It's no coincidence the NY Times titles the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People". They are claiming conspiracy. I agree there has been no such thing in this case

Giles Corey wrote:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot wrote:

Actually the title of the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People" which means it is a conspiracy. How else would black people be excluded?

Coincidence isn't a conspiracy.

It's no coincidence the NY Times titles the article "Jogging Has Always Excluded Black People". They are claiming conspiracy. I agree there has been no such thing in this case

Wow seems like you and Rojo are claiming that there is a conspiracy to claim that there’s a conspiracy! But it’s okay bc a white person is married to a black person!

The bigger fallacy here is that the democratic party and its liberal followers actually 'care" about black people. They are used for their votes. End of story. It sad actually. You white knights need to take a long look in the mirror.

ready made wrote:

rojo wrote:

I was waiting for someone to imply Toni was racist. He is married to a black woman.

lol Rojo you are a joke. Why does Weldon still let you post here?

Because it makes Weldon look better. They are playing this bad cop-good cop routine for a long time. That way, they can increase the page view count. ;)