The official (and only) Ahmaud Arbery thread

Did not see that coming. Though lawyers on the Arbery side have vehemently pushed for broader accountability and arrests, this seemed aimed at stoking public sentiment and posturing for civil suits. GIven the delay between between Bryan's arrest and Arbery's death, and the delay between his and McMicahel's arrest, it gives an appearance of being motivated by public pressure or other non-legal agendae. Not sure how charges are approved in Georgia, but in my neck of the woods, these are brought only when (1) conviction is reasonably anticipated and (2) prosecution is deemed in the public interest. In this case, the latter criteria seems most pertinent to Bryan's arrest.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Meanwhile, Bryan has been arrested under the same charges:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ahmaud-arbery-william-bryan-recorded-video-charged-with-felony-murder/

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Ronald Dump wrote:

This doesn't bode well for the McMichaels.

It doesn't make sense to me. For all he knew, Arbery could have been fleeing a murder scene and he wouldn't have necessarily known that the McMichaels were armed.

Did the McMichaels call ahead to Bryan and ask for his help to catch a black guy running down the street?

I remember reading that Roddie was standing outside of his house when AA ran by with the McMichaels chasing him, then hopped in his truck to follow. Maybe the McMichaels yelled something at him as they drove by, or called/texted.

ElRunner wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

It doesn't make sense to me. For all he knew, Arbery could have been fleeing a murder scene and he wouldn't have necessarily known that the McMichaels were armed.

Did the McMichaels call ahead to Bryan and ask for his help to catch a black guy running down the street?

I remember reading that Roddie was standing outside of his house when AA ran by with the McMichaels chasing him, then hopped in his truck to follow. Maybe the McMichaels yelled something at him as they drove by, or called/texted.

It's seems that there would had to have been a communication between them for the murder charge. I read somewhere that they barely knew eachother. Bryan lived around the corner on a different street.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

ElRunner wrote:

I remember reading that Roddie was standing outside of his house when AA ran by with the McMichaels chasing him, then hopped in his truck to follow. Maybe the McMichaels yelled something at him as they drove by, or called/texted.

It's seems that there would had to have been a communication between them for the murder charge. I read somewhere that they barely knew eachother. Bryan lived around the corner on a different street.

It never made sense to me that Roddie just saw the chase, and decided to join in and later start recording. I agree with what you’re saying about communication between the parties seeming necessary for Roddie to also be arrested for murder.

At one point, Bryan apparently placed his vehicle in the path of the fleeing Arbery. So he wasn't just following and documenting the event, but was a participant. In some places, there is a legal principle holding all accountable in a collective crime for all actions committed. For example, you and person X decide to rob a grocery store. Your plan is to grab an armload of cigarettes - quick in and out with no one being hurt. But person X pulls out a gun and shoots the store clerk dead. Despite intentions to the contrary, you are now on the hook for armed robbery felony murder, etc. Game over, man. In Bryan's case, he is tarred with the same brush as the McMichael's. By participating in Arbery's pursuit, he can be argued as criminally or civilly liable for its outcome.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

ElRunner wrote:

I remember reading that Roddie was standing outside of his house when AA ran by with the McMichaels chasing him, then hopped in his truck to follow. Maybe the McMichaels yelled something at him as they drove by, or called/texted.

It's seems that there would had to have been a communication between them for the murder charge. I read somewhere that they barely knew eachother. Bryan lived around the corner on a different street.

The walls are closing in.

KudzuRunner wrote:

Reflection_ wrote:

I have watched numerous video clips of what you are trying to say happened and the only one I see running is AA, and it IS him that made the hard turn and went at TM in the front of that truck. If you have a video showing TM sprinting anywhere around his truck PLEASE POST YOUR EVIDENCE.

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/newsfeed/2020/05/video-shows-killing-ahmaud-arbery-200510112554110.html

I'm surprised, actually, by what I see when I watch this video. At the :26 second point, AA suddenly veers from right to left, around the right front corner of the truck and then across the front of the truck. This is clearer at the :27 point, but you need the previous second to get a sense of how complete and forceful a commitment that left swerve it. AA travels the complete width of the truck; the first shotgun shot sounds as AA's foot and then white shirt become visible on the LEFT side of the truck, just beyond the open driver's side door of the truck.

There's no question that AA charges Travis. I wasn't clear on this prior to this video, but it's clear from this video.

He may have charged in self-defense. He may have believed that Travis was about to shoot him and that he had no choice but to charge and wrest the gun away from him. None of us really know that.

I see no evidence that Travis McMichael is charging Arbery.

I've made clear in a number of posts to this point that I side with those who have argued that the McMichaels were committing a felony by chasing AA, brandishing a weapon at him, and seeking to stop him in this way. I also agree with those who have argued that the killing thus become felony murder.

Here I'm simply speaking narrowly to the facts: what can actually be seen, and intuited, by any reasonable observer.[/quote]

Great observation! Thanks for your HONESTY!

Ciro wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52764898

The walls are closing in.

Finally and the sooner the better so that these blind “reasonable observers” can stop pettifogging away from the obvious!

Reflection_ wrote:

Finally and the sooner the better so that these blind “reasonable observers” can stop pettifogging away from the obvious!

Yep, the details of a murder case are petty...good one!

Ward Cleaver wrote:

Reflection_ wrote:

Finally and the sooner the better so that these blind “reasonable observers” can stop pettifogging away from the obvious!

Yep, the details of a murder case are petty...good one!

If only that was what your actions spoke on Deflector. Placing undue emphasis on the deceased actions, making him the suspect in his own killing, and as typical expressing what the deceased who was black should have done to avoid being killed vs more attention on Travis and what that killer should have not done is pretty petty...so yes my statement was indeed a good one!

But back to the point of this comment...it’s good that another participant in the chase and killing was finally arrested!!!

Responses in bold above

Reflection_ wrote:

Ward Cleaver wrote:

Yep, the details of a murder case are petty...good one!

If only that was what your actions spoke on Deflector. Placing undue emphasis on the deceased actions, making him the suspect in his own killing, and as typical expressing what the deceased who was black should have done to avoid being killed vs more attention on Travis and what that killer should have not done is pretty petty...so yes my statement was indeed a good one!

But back to the point of this comment...it’s good that another participant in the chase and killing was finally arrested!!!

The guy ignores the police report. He's not worth trying to explain basic concepts to.

Ernest wrote:

At one point, Bryan apparently placed his vehicle in the path of the fleeing Arbery.

So he wasn't just following and documenting the event, but was a participant.

In some places, there is a legal principle holding all accountable in a collective crime for all actions committed.

This is the case in a lot of states.

This is not a case of public pressure causing GBI to arrest the guy. It was mentioned he was under investigation and facing charges from the day the McMichaels were arrested. He was a participant in the basic crime of illegally attempting false imprisonment thus also exposing him to the murder charges.

Bryan being joined as one of the defendants in the case will be the result of evidence that shows he cooperated with the other accused in the events that led to Arbery's death. He was not a bystander or an observer. That it took some additional time to bring charges against him suggests that there was no single compelling item of evidence but rather that it was a combination of factors when weighed together demonstrated he also played an instrumental role. This would have required investigation to build a case against him.

Some here have attempted to form a definitive view of the McMichaels' culpability based on a narrow or specific interpretation of events seen in those parts of the video as it was made public. Chiefly, that view is formed on the basis of few seconds when Travis McMichaels leaves the vehicle and engages with Arbery. But that is misleading. The prosecutors will base their case on the events beginning with the McMichaels leaving their house and following Arbery, intercepting him and finally entering into the confrontation that led to his death. That sequence of events will have established a pattern of intent. The killing will be seen as the final step and not a moment viewed in isolation. Travis McMichaels doesnt have to have literally run after Arbery to show intent; that he simply chose to leave his vehicle wielding a firearm to follow Arbery shows a continuation of the pursuit that was undertaken in the vehicle, which is from where the chase was largely conducted. The McMichaels (and Bryan) did nothing to show a break in the established pattern of events, by discontinuing their chase. The prosecution will argue that Arbery was pursued for several minutes and tried to get away but turned to defend himself when he felt escape wasn't possible; he was effectively cornered. He couldn't outrun a shotgun.

Of course Arbery was under no legal requirement to even try to escape or protect himself - even assuming that he could have; it was his lawful right that no one should be able to interfere with him, threaten him or attack him. The culpability of the accused is judged solely by their own actions and intentions. The law attaches no blame to a victim who makes a wrong decision or commits errors of judgment. None of that mitigates the wrongdoing of the accused.

Further, there is nothing in Arbery's record that is admissible as evidence. Even the video of him visiting the vacant property would only be relevant for establishing his movements before his contact with the accused; it could not be used to show that the McMichaels had reasonable grounds for suspecting that he had committed burglaries (he hadn't) as they could not have seen the video before they accosted him and they knew nothing about him. A decision to undertake a citizens arrest cannot be validated in hindsight. The McMichaels fail the criteria of Georgia's statutes for a citizens arrest.

spade detector wrote:

Reflection_ wrote:

If only that was what your actions spoke on Deflector. Placing undue emphasis on the deceased actions, making him the suspect in his own killing, and as typical expressing what the deceased who was black should have done to avoid being killed vs more attention on Travis and what that killer should have not done is pretty petty...so yes my statement was indeed a good one!

But back to the point of this comment...it’s good that another participant in the chase and killing was finally arrested!!!

The guy ignores the police report. He's not worth trying to explain basic concepts to.

I am with you! I have definitely stopped speaking to him in any manner that gives the impression that he is someone who seeks a genuine conversation. He (and his other “reasonable observers””) ignores facts because they want to feel right and not get it right!

spade detector wrote:

Reflection_ wrote:

If only that was what your actions spoke on Deflector. Placing undue emphasis on the deceased actions, making him the suspect in his own killing, and as typical expressing what the deceased who was black should have done to avoid being killed vs more attention on Travis and what that killer should have not done is pretty petty...so yes my statement was indeed a good one!

But back to the point of this comment...it’s good that another participant in the chase and killing was finally arrested!!!

The guy ignores the police report. He's not worth trying to explain basic concepts to.

What part? The definition of the "chase"?

Ronald Dump wrote:

Ernest wrote:

At one point, Bryan apparently placed his vehicle in the path of the fleeing Arbery.

So he wasn't just following and documenting the event, but was a participant.

In some places, there is a legal principle holding all accountable in a collective crime for all actions committed.

This is the case in a lot of states.

This is not a case of public pressure causing GBI to arrest the guy. It was mentioned he was under investigation and facing charges from the day the McMichaels were arrested. He was a participant in the basic crime of illegally attempting false imprisonment thus also exposing him to the murder charges.

If you believe there has been no public pressure in this case you haven't been following along.

Reflection_ wrote:

spade detector wrote:

The guy ignores the police report. He's not worth trying to explain basic concepts to.

I am with you! I have definitely stopped speaking to him in any manner that gives the impression that he is someone who seeks a genuine conversation. He (and his other “reasonable observers””) ignores facts because they want to feel right and not get it right!

Show me your video where AA is chased down and is ran after by a dude that looks like a thrower going after a free meal and then is gunned down.

I'm the one asking for people to put on the breaks and wait for all the facts to come out before making judgement. I definitely want the courts to get this right and make it totally transparent so if if doesn't go the way many feel it should - we don't end up with another Rodney King situation.

WE still don't have all the facts.

No charges, case, trials, nor verdicts in the history of EVER has had “all the facts”. The GBI actions are showing we have all the facts we NEED for criminal arrests in a killing. To their credit they also had all the facts they needed to arrest the guy who made the online threat to protesters. This is how good work from LEOs and DAs not connected to the suspects look like!! *Slams gavel: This comment of yours is dismissed on grounds that any additional facts at this point would not and will not change the facts already disclosed!

(For the rest of your Stormfront gibberish) A statement(s)which purposefully omits facts is not a differing opinion...it is a lie! The intent of the lie could have many reasons yet relating none whatsoever to the conversation at hand[\b]

Truth in bold above Deflector[\b]