My Beef with being Vegetarian - I've gained almost 20 pounds since becoming a Vegetarian

Why would you take supplements if you're on a supposedly healthy vegetarian diet, doesn't that go against the main raison d'être of the veggie disciples.

Shame on you.

masterofdisaster wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Well, as a 22-year old vegetarian, both my knees were wrecked with chondramalacia. Now at 63, zero-carb diet, perfect knee health. N=1, but I am one of many.

I was rarely overweight as a plant-based runner, but was always fighting systemic inflammation, probably was pre-diabetic, heart problems, injuries, everything "burning up" basically.

Fly and a pile of poop.

YMMV and the food related thread.

Vegan Poop Smear (VPS) posting on any thread I post on = 100% certainty. Built-in autobump feature for me on this site. Giveaway is they always bring their ubiquitous vegan bowel troubles with them.

YMMV wrote:

Well, as a 22-year old vegetarian, both my knees were wrecked with chondramalacia. Now at 63, zero-carb diet, perfect knee health. N=1, but I am one of many.

I was rarely overweight as a plant-based runner, but was always fighting systemic inflammation, probably was pre-diabetic, heart problems, injuries, everything "burning up" basically.

Just throwing some facts out here:

What causes chondromalacia patellae?

Your kneecap normally resides over the front of your knee joint. When you bend your knee, the backside of your kneecap glides over the cartilage of your femur, or thigh bone, at the knee. Tendons and ligaments attach your kneecap to your shinbone and thigh muscle. When any of these components fails to move properly, it can cause your kneecap to rub up against your thigh bone. This abnormal rubbing can lead to deterioration in the patella, resulting in chondromalacia patellae, or runner’s knee.

Improper kneecap movement may result from:

poor alignment due to a congenital condition

weak hamstrings and quadriceps (the muscles in the back and front of your thighs, respectively)

muscle imbalance between the adductors and abductors (the muscles on the outside and inside of your thighs)

repeated stress to your knee joints, such as from running, skiing, or jumping

a direct blow or trauma to your kneecap

Who is at risk for chondromalacia patellae?

There are a variety of factors that may increase your risk for developing chondromalacia patellae.

Age

Adolescents and young adults are at high risk for this condition. During growth spurts, the muscles and bones develop rapidly, which may contribute to short-term muscle imbalances.

Sex

Females are more likely than males to develop runner’s knee, as they typically possess less muscle mass than males. This can cause abnormal knee positioning, as well as more lateral (side) pressure on the kneecap.

Flat feet

Having flat feet may place more stress on the knee joints than having higher arches would.

Previous injury

A prior injury to the kneecap, such as a dislocation, can increase your risk of developing runner’s knee.

High activity level

If you have a high activity level or engage in frequent exercises that place pressure on your knee joints, this can increase the risk for knee problems.

Arthritis

Runner’s knee can also be a symptom of arthritis, a condition causing inflammation to the joint and tissue. Inflammation can prevent the kneecap from functioning properly.

Chondromalacia is gradual and permanent deterioration of (knee) cartilage.

It's as unheard of for a 22 year old to get it as it is for 63 year old to have reversed it.

Ernest wrote:

I suppose it might be possible to improve/avoid this with careful meal planning, but I feel I shouldn't need a Food Science degree to make dinner.

With a more restrictive diet, you are restricting a whole nutrient source. Accordingly, it does take some planning, and it is essential that you're getting enough protein, iron and B12.

I have lost weight and I've never been healthier on a vegetarian diet, but I learned the hard way that you need to monitor your intake of iron and B12. I take iron and B12 supplements, and drink a Vega all-in-one shake most mornings.

If you're not into supplements or you don't want to monitor your diet at least semi-consciously, it's probably healthier to consume an all encompassing diet.

As an aside, I'm healthier not directly because of the plant based diet, but because I'm not consuming fast food and processed stuff. There's not a lot of plant-based nutritious fast food options, so it's helped cut that crap from my diet.

YMMV wrote:

biggy smallz wrote:

Cue YMMV in 3...2...1

:)

Plants don't have:

Vitamin A (beta carotene is poorly converted) , B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine), B12, D, E (Animal) F, K2, Q10. Amino acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, and Taurine. Also Heme-iron, Collagen, Omegas: DHA, EPA, CLA, Cholesterol and Balanced, fully bioavailable Complete Protein (Consists of 9 essential amino acids)

Antinutrients & TOXINS in plants: Alkaloids, Alpha-amylases, Arsenics, Cellulose, Cyanogenic glycosides, Fiber, Flavonoids, Gluten, Lectins, Mycotoxins, Oxalates, Phenolics, Photosensitizers, Phytic acid, Salicylates, Saponins, Sulforaphane, Tannins, Glucosinolates,Terpenoids and etc. 99.99% of all pesticides in plant food are natural and found in organic produce too.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2217210https://medium.com/@kevinmpm/the-biggest-myth-of-modern-nutrition-healthy-plant-based-diets-66ff4061517d

YMMV:

Went vegan around 1980, had a bad experience

Rails against vegans 40 years later on a message board

Blames a degenerative joint issue on going vegan, implies it went away eating meat and doesn't have the issue in his 60's

Makes up stuff about what's important in a diet

Cites a blog for supporting evidence

Probably is mean to dogs

Ernest wrote:

Chondromalacia is gradual and permanent deterioration of (knee) cartilage.

It's as unheard of for a 22 year old to get it as it is for 63 year old to have reversed it.

"Chondromalacia patellae, also known as “runner's knee,” is a condition where the cartilage on the under surface of the patella (kneecap) deteriorates and softens. This condition is common among young, athletic individuals, but may also occur in older adults who have arthritis of the knee.

Causes. Chondromalacia patellae is caused by an irritation of the underside of the kneecap. It may be the result of the simple wear-and-tear on the knee joint as we age. In younger people, it is more often due to an acute injury such as a fall or a long-term overuse injury related to sports."

Also, Chondromalacia (runner's knee) is often referred to, rightly or wrongly, when the patella is out of alignment and causes irritation and/or inflammation. Often the mis-alignment is brought on by pronation, running on the same surface camber regularly, etc. A change of shoe, running surface camber, etc will often rectify it.

Is patella chondromalacia reversible?

Patella chondromalacia, once it starts, is irreversible. This is because it involves a breakdown of the surface layer of the cartilage surface and once that happens, it is always progressive. One can definitively slow down the progression of chondromalacia patella by changing their exercise program or avoiding those activities which could cause it to wear out faster.

Can chondromalacia patella be cured?

True chondromalacia patella, which involves a breakdown of the cartilage surface, cannot be cured. However, a program of weight loss, avoidance of those activities which make it worse, exercise, and/or injections may help one to make it become asymptomatic. Surgery to trim down the frayed or fissured cartilage surfaces can also sometimes take away the symptoms, but it does not cure the underlying chondromalacia patella.

Is chondromalacia patella permanent?

Yes, chondromalacia patella is permanent. This is because it involves an irreversible breakdown of the cartilage surface which can progress over time.

https://drrobertlaprademd.com/patellofemoral-chondromalacia/

You know what beef is?

Beef is when you need two Gats to go to sleep

Beef is when your moms ain't safe up in the streets

Beef is when I see you

Beef is when you make your enemies start your Jeep

Beef is when you roll no less than 30 deep

Someone bumped this thread, so I thought I'd give a quick update. I did consult my GP and it seems the skin issue which prompted me to question my vegetarianism had nothing to do with diet. Seems I might have gotten ringworm from a dog - a few weeks of antifungal cream took care of it. As a precaution, I also did full blood work testing for Iron, Hematocrit , B12 etc. etc. I compared this online with a half-dozen archived blood tests going back over 10 years (with all prior tests being as a non-vegetarian, and some prior tests being done during high mileage). Happy to say after a year of haphazard vegetarianism, with no supplements whatsoever, all my blood recent blood test results were normal or better than normal, both in terms of general guidance ranges and compared to prior results.

Ernest wrote:

Thanks for the responses and insights.

Nothing I saw in or linked in this thread made me want to renounce my new-found non-meat ways, though i am open to it if need be.

Though it does seem plain from what was shared (and from my experience) maintaining a healthy diet over the longer term is more difficult as a vegan/vegetarian.

i have never been a pill-popper, but will begin taking a multi-vitamin and B12.

I am also getting a full blood panel done and will compare results to those taken before I became a vegetarian.

If I see anything interesting, I'll post the before/after.

Ernest wrote:

Happy to say after a year of haphazard vegetarianism, with no supplements whatsoever, all my blood recent blood test results were normal or better than normal, both in terms of general guidance ranges and compared to prior results.

Best of luck OP. Glad to her vegetarianism seems to be working well for you.

+1

Ernest wrote:

Happy to say after a year of haphazard vegetarianism, with no supplements whatsoever, all my blood recent blood test results were normal or better than normal, both in terms of general guidance ranges and compared to prior results.

This is a classic catch-22. I see it all the time in my practice (I am a doctor of naturopathic therapy).

You are too mentally emaciated to recognize your own cognitive decline due to your vegan extremism, but trust me, everyone around you can tell. Heck, as a doctor, I can tell just by the way you are writing.

I am sure there are many hardships going on in your life that you are simply blissfully unaware of because your eating disorder causes mental atrophy. This is precisely why liberals cannot fathom economics and why liberalism is officially classified as a mental disorder.

I'm not Trump supporter, but this is the type of thing that will get him reelected in November.

MAGAKAG

I can't stomach vegans because of their self-righteousness

Rhodium Nights wrote:

RAW red meat is kind of hard to stomach...what's wrong with cooking it?

It's fine to cook meat lightly just avoid burning it, when people talk about meat being a carcinogen it's because it's burnt/overcooked. If you burn anything it becomes carcinogenic.

Ernest wrote:

Happy to say after a year of haphazard vegetarianism, with no supplements whatsoever, all my blood recent blood test results were normal

Sorry, "normal" just doesn't cut it here on LR, you'll just have to try harder with your crusade.

cheaterfly wrote:

Rhodium Nights wrote:

RAW red meat is kind of hard to stomach...what's wrong with cooking it?

It's fine to cook meat lightly just avoid burning it, when people talk about meat being a carcinogen it's because it's burnt/overcooked. If you burn anything it becomes carcinogenic.

Raw is actually FAR superior. The scientific consensus is that raw red meat (RRM) is the optimal human nutrition.

Libertarian Centrist wrote:

Raw is actually FAR superior. The scientific consensus is that raw red meat (RRM) is the optimal human nutrition.

Good luck with that.