Laura MF Muir 3:55

jeff tallon wrote:

my god,thats a who's who of pharmaceautical women isnt it? good on laura for being so talented,and showing those laboratory experiments that a clean au natural woman can do it ;) ok,im kidding......

Your objective doping evidence on Laura Muir is:

ZERO.

Hey Doper expert.

You also do not know how to spell the word "pharmaceutical".

You are a joke.

I am not kidding.

The Moron Miler wrote:

Sharp deserves a medal as top 3 in the women's 800m in Rio.

Niyonsaba is no dude, muscles or not. Doped, maybe.

And Muir didn't run a 1:57 last 800.

But she did run the last 800 on MUIR HATE.

What a lousy pun

Is Muir another doped limey?

Algonquin wrote:

No one knows. For a long time, Lance A. and Marion J. were thought highly likely to be clean.

Marion Jones's performances seemed plausible but history of doping in North American elite sprinting meant very few informed fans thought she was "highly likely to be clean."

Every follower of cycling with a brain could see Armstrong was a cheat.

Algonquin wrote:

On the Men's side, if Jim Ryun could run 3:51.3 on dirt in 1967 and Ron Clarke could run 13:16 on dirt in 1966, and we pretty much know those performances are clean

Who says that these two were clean?

[quote]Algonquin wrote:

Admit that Scotland's history of not being 1/50th as good as Ethiopia in running means her performance, all other things equal, is more suspicious than an Ethiopian's similar performance.'

Until recently that was at long not more distance. There is actually a history of good Scottish long distance runners Murray, McColgan

They are probably all doping but only one has a coach getting arrested for peddling EPO.

Total rubbish wrote:

She's run 6 800s this year with 2 being in June/July. With the exception of 2015, 800 has been a staple event - 8 races in 2014 and 7 in 2013. The idea that she closed in sub-2 is absurd considering her racing history over 800.

The Scots are throwing up red flags. But nobody is testing positive and they're all tweeting #cleansport. It's a joke.

The Scots are looking highly suspicious from my position. Too many breakthrough performances all at once across male and female endurance events.

Remember Lynsey Sharp's pre-Commonwealth IV drip two years ago?

The conditions in Paris were practically ideal. A temperature of 30 won't effect a race as short as 1500.

There were fast times also in men's 800 and 3000. Obviously everyone was running so much slower due to high temperatures?

If it was a marathon, fair point, but not for 4 mins of running.

Your fixated with making times faster for slight wind and anything not 70. And there is no way for allocating time values for temperature or wind.

Laura Muir would have benefitted with more evenly distributed pace in the first 3 laps, which would probably get her down by a second, but any more based on the fact it was hot and she is pale is nonsense.

There is a history of Scot doping amid champions. Well, Jenkins, and others in the Scottish sprint world. Then there was Walker back in '99. Of course, this was covered up and deemed a mistake, thanks in part to Moorcroft (then head of UK Aths). Here's a good reminder article ripe with scents of Slaney and Mitchell.

https://www.theguardian.com/drugs/Story/0,2763,208084,00.html

Ian Mill QC -- cleared Walker --

http://www.lawinsport.com/item/ian-mill-qc

Athletes are doping because they have powerful allies entrenched in the upper realm of Sporting Administration. Lord Coe is head of IAAF--does he care more about being an umbrella for sport or an umbrella for Great Britain. Uhhhh, he is a "Lord" first and foremost. God save the queen and all that. British Aths has been on the rise and look to London '17 and you're going to see something glorious for UK Aths.

rjm33 wrote:

jeff tallon wrote:

my god,thats a who's who of pharmaceautical women isnt it? good on laura for being so talented,and showing those laboratory experiments that a clean au natural woman can do it ;) ok,im kidding......

Your objective doping evidence on Laura Muir is:

ZERO.

.

And you've never accused anyone on these boards of doping without any "objective" (up for debate what exactly that constitutes) proof of his/her doping ?

Have you asked MagnessBot if MuiR is a doper?

Something your father did to help create you.

AuntBee wrote:

What does the "MF" in Miss Muir's name stand for?

rjm33 wrote:

Your objective doping evidence on Laura Muir is:

ZERO.

I take your point, but it'd be helpful if you used the correct terminology.

The evidence we have -- her times -- is objective. We know for sure what times she has run, when, where, who else has run that fast, and so on. The problem is that her times are not direct evidence of doping; they are circumstantial evidence. Because our evidence is circumstantial, we have to rely on inference to get from it to the conclusion that she is doping. Direct evidence would be blood work, syringes, etc.

The subjectivity comes from the inferences we use to go from the evidence -- she's running really, really fast -- to the conclusion -- she's a doper. To make this inference we have to rely on a bunch of guesses about everything from Muir's character to whether Dibaba, Ivan, or Kazankina are/were clean. It's these guesses that are subjective, and they are what we are arguing about.

The case for her being clean is also circumstantial. We have to rely on inference to get from "She has not failed any drugs tests" to "She is not doping." As we all know, lots of dopers never failed a drug test.

This seems like the perfect case for Radcliffe's Rule: You only know for sure about yourself.

If she run's the second half like that race after getting paced in 2:05 for the first 800 she could run 3:52.

WR splits for her if she did go for it this what would probably work for her, since she seems to be able to run consistent splits.

300m: 45.8

400m: 61.1

700m: 1:47.2

800m: 2:02.6

1100m: 2:40.7

1200m: 3:03.7

1500m: 3:49.9

After watching the race video again, I am even more convinced that Muir had to have some sort of beyond natural assistance. She runs through the line and while the two behind her clearly are breaking down in the final 50m, Muir continued to drive with lifted knees and powering hips. I would contend, given her finish, that she probably could have continued that form for at least another 50m and quite possibly for another 50 and be damn close to a 4:15 mile.

The issue of this absurd 3:55.22 is the way she finished.

casual obsever wrote:

Algonquin wrote:

On the Men's side, if Jim Ryun could run 3:51.3 on dirt in 1967 and Ron Clarke could run 13:16 on dirt in 1966, and we pretty much know those performances are clean

Who says that these two were clean?

http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.timeline.php?timelineID=000017

983 - Surprise Drug Testing at Pan Am Games Leads Many Athletes to Withdraw from Competition

"The modern age of drug testing essentially started at the 1983 Pan Am Games in Caracas, Venezuela. A team of scientists... developed a new method for steroid testing in anticipation of two large international sporting events that year, the Pan Games and world track and field championships...

The Pan Am drug testing caught a lot of athletes by surprise... a dozen American athletes in various events suddenly withdrew from the competition and returned to the U.S., and at least another dozen athletes from other countries also left without explanation.

Nineteen athletes in total failed drug tests at the 1983 Pan Ams."

I remember this, the LA Naturate track Club, coached by Chuc Debus sent a number of athletes to the 83 Pan Ams.......when the drug testing was announced they all came home. DeBus was later banned for life as I recall.

The Moron Miler wrote:

Sharp deserves a medal as top 3 in the women's 800m in Rio.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Niyonsaba is no dude, muscles or not. Doped, maybe.

Any guy with a T level of 30 is a dude.

Scotty wants a cracker wrote:

She's actually 16th fastest time ever, 13th fastest woman.

1 3:50.07 Genzebe

2 3:50.46 Qu Yunxia

3 3:50.98 Jiang Bo

4 3:51.34 Lang Yinlai

5 3:51.92 Wang Junxia

6 3:52.47 Tatyana Kazankina

7 3:53.91 Yin Lili

8 3:53.96 Paula Ivan

9 3:53.97 Lan Lixin

10 3:54.11 Genzebe Dibaba

11 3:54.23 Olga Dvirna

12 3:54.52 Zhang Ling

13 3:55.0 Tatyana

14 3:55.01 Lan Lixin

15 3:55.07 Dong Yanmei

16 3:55.22 Laura Muir

17 3:55.30 Hassiba Boulmerka

You said that much more nicely then I would have done.