Look I rather be called a court-jester or RF-jester than be called a pervert which I'm calling you one now you pervert!!!
Sorry, dear rekrunner, I've been fooled by your semantics. I didn't know you play this game of semantics so indiscreetly and pretentiously with such great intensity even I am more disconcerted about your game than ever!!!
You are playing around with the letters and words while I'm targeting only the SPIRIT of the letter!!!! Because I'm operating on a different basis based on the SPIRIT rather than the LETTER of the letter, from this vantage point I feel I have been greatly deceived and lied to by you, damn it!!!!
I'm very wary about you from now on and what you spin with words and letters damn it!!!
Let me show you why AAA's statements and findings DOES NOT AMOUNT or PERMIT YOU to even make those statements you make such as, I lift from you:
"No NOP athlete was ever charged for doping, and Salazar was not convicted for doping any NOP athlete".
This statement has not been vetted and approved by USADA or AAA. Nowhere in their lists of quotes do they say, make, or amount to the statements you make!!! In fact, quite to the contrary, the original charge sheet of USADA's was extremely damning with accusations and charges of doping by Salaazar on NOP athletes. Obviously the NOP athletes are unlikely to know how to dope themselves up, they had to take instruction from Salaazar himself as the technical director of the NOP program! Your statements are therefore YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION of AAA's findings and results which I reject, and many more on LRC have rejected and downvoted you!!!
1)Administration of a Prohibited Method (with respect to an infusion in excess of the applicable limit), 2)Tampering and/or attempted tampering with the doping control process, and 3)Trafficking of testosterone through involvement in a testosterone testing program in violation of the rules.
NOWHERE IN AAA'S LIST OF QUOTES DOES IT STATE THAT SALAAZAR ISN'T CHARGED WITH DOPING IN THE SLIGHTEST, NOR ANY OF NOPers THE SAME!!!! YOU ADDED YOUR OWN SPIN TO THE WHOLE THING YOU IDIOT!!!!
Since you are so pedantic and scrupulous with your game of words, I will have to hold you to the same standards you hold yourself too hahahahahaha!!!! Ooops, my bad!!!! I will take only the AAA's findings word for word with no leeway for rephrasing, re-stating, deduction, interpretation on your part. You, of all people on this planet earth shall not be given the liberty to interpret anything at all!!!
Now I understand why you have trouble interpreting electromagnetic field theory science, and/or the harmful effects of anthropogenic RF and EMF!!!
Thank you for everything, dear rekrunner, but just as I spoke to you the first time 2 weeks ago, I see through your fake appearance, you have no substance and people would rather take my 'RF-jesting' to your 'deceitful offerings'!!!!
Name-calling doesn't hurt me. But it is a curious contrast that you sell yourself as some super-moral celibitaire by choice, while seemingly a little too obsessed with sexual perversion.
You are not a victim of any 4D level chess game of semantics. Quite fundamentally you still fail to understand that the subjects of my statements ("NOP athletes") and your rebuttals ("Salazar") are not the same, both in WORDS and in SPIRIT.
My claim is fundamentally about something you will find nowhere. I cannot quote something from a report that I claim fundamentally cannot be found in that report.
You will not find "NOP athletes" charges/sanctions in an AAA Panel report that found against Salazar and Dr. Brown.
If you read deeply enough into the findings of the AAA Panel report, you will eventually learn that the findings of 1) "administration" concerns Magness' 1L infusion of L-Carnitine (a WADA legal substance); and 2) "tampering" concerns an email sent to NOP athletes; and 3) "trafficking" concerns Alberto's sons.
It is not my "spin" that none of these findings involve the doping of NOP athletes. That is made plain by the AAA Panel after reading the report in its entirety. It is notable by its absence, and the silence is deafening.
Your narrow focus on the AAA Panel report is also far too limiting. My claim is that no matter where you look, anywhere and everywhere, you will fail to find any formal charge against any NOP athlete by any anti-doping organization in its entire history of existence, whether it is from anti-doping testing, or thorough investigation.
This is not only plainly vetted by history, but also by USADA's chief Travis Tygart. In 2019, in response to WADA's announcement to perform their own investigation, at the IOC's request, of NOP athletes, we can find quotes like:
"There is no point in the World Anti-doping Agency (WADA) looking into athletes who trained under banned coach Alberto Salazar because the U.S. Anti-doping Agency has already done that, USADA chief Travis Tygart said on Wednesday."
"USADA did not sanction any of (Salazar's) athletes after finding no evidence of any wrongdoing by them."
Tygart: "What they (WADA) would have learned is that we left no stone unturned (in relation to any athletes)."
Conclusion:
No spin. No semantics. NOP athletes? No evidence. No charges. No sanctions. Vetted by USADA.
" My claim is that no matter where you look, anywhere and everywhere, you will fail to find any formal charge against any NOP athlete by any anti-doping organization in its entire history of existence, whether it is from anti-doping testing, or thorough investigation."
That's YOUR CLAIM, it's not supported by the majority of Americans, LRC folks and running experts. You want me to get Rojo on here to check with him if your claim is valid or hogwash??? Dun try me, dun let my Rojo embarrass spin doctors like you lol!!!
Obviously there will not be a formal charge against any NOP athlete because the entire AAA and USADA report FUNDAMENTALLY (in your own words) states that Salaazar MISLEAD them into believing that everything was legal, was safe, and within rules!!!! You have just blatantly lied again you idiot!!! So this is why the charge is against Salaazar but it does not change the fact that NOP athletes were ultimately and finally DOPED UP BY HIM!!!! It's just that the burden of guilt is on Salaazar and your splitting hairs over whether NOP athletes are guilty is irrelevant on these 2 points!!! Your claim is therefore disproved!!!
You can also end your nebulous fixation with the difference between NOP athletes and Salaazar in my reply because this is a well-time distraction and misdirection spinning from you hahaha!!!
None of you bringing up WADA and IOC has any relevance for the actual matter at hand now. They only serve to distract and spin us away from Salaazar misdirecting his athletes in order to dope them up!!!! The final facts are that Salaazar and his athletes are all dopers and doping whether intentional or unintentional!!! Of course his athletes could be a little more proactive in asking questions but that's a completely different matter altogether. The amount of authority Salaazar wielded and Nike's influence also meant that was difficult to achieve.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
No. Several charges were about NOP athletes. See CAS report page 16:
56. USADA alleged the following ADRVs against Mr. Salazar in Section 4 of its Statement of Appeal:
....
7. Possession of excessive amounts of testosterone without acceptable justification and in connection with athletes[/v], training and/or competition during 2008-2013
8. Possession of testosterone in furtherance of the testosterone excretion experiment without acceptable justification and [b]in connection with athletes, training or competition
9. Administration and/or attempted administration of additional over limit L-carnitine infusions to Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn during December 2011 through January 2012, and/or complicity in the foregoing infusions
Too much spinning from you, rekrunner.
No spinning. Only despinning.
If I read that correctly: "56. USADA alleged the following ADRVs against Mr. Salazar ...".
Maybe there is another section where USADA alleges ADRVs against NOP athletes?
" My claim is that no matter where you look, anywhere and everywhere, you will fail to find any formal charge against any NOP athlete by any anti-doping organization in its entire history of existence, whether it is from anti-doping testing, or thorough investigation."
That's YOUR CLAIM, it's not supported by the majority of Americans, LRC folks and running experts. You want me to get Rojo on here to check with him if your claim is valid or hogwash??? Dun try me, dun let my Rojo embarrass spin doctors like you lol!!!
Obviously there will not be a formal charge against any NOP athlete because the entire AAA and USADA report FUNDAMENTALLY (in your own words) states that Salaazar MISLEAD them into believing that everything was legal, was safe, and within rules!!!! You have just blatantly lied again you idiot!!! So this is why the charge is against Salaazar but it does not change the fact that NOP athletes were ultimately and finally DOPED UP BY HIM!!!! It's just that the burden of guilt is on Salaazar and your splitting hairs over whether NOP athletes are guilty is irrelevant on these 2 points!!! Your claim is therefore disproved!!!
You can also end your nebulous fixation with the difference between NOP athletes and Salaazar in my reply because this is a well-time distraction and misdirection spinning from you hahaha!!!
None of you bringing up WADA and IOC has any relevance for the actual matter at hand now. They only serve to distract and spin us away from Salaazar misdirecting his athletes in order to dope them up!!!! The final facts are that Salaazar and his athletes are all dopers and doping whether intentional or unintentional!!! Of course his athletes could be a little more proactive in asking questions but that's a completely different matter altogether. The amount of authority Salaazar wielded and Nike's influence also meant that was difficult to achieve.
It's not just my claim -- Tygart said as much. Who would know better than Tygart?
You seem to find the trick in another thread. Just give me one counter-example. Something like "You Will Be Sorry" tried to do, but only without the obvious fail. Ask your "majority of Americans, LRC folks and running experts" for help. Go ahead and ask Rojo.
FYI, due to the principle of strict liability, athletes are responsible for whatever goes in their bodies. If Salazar doped NOP athletes, both Salazar and the athlete committed rule violations, even if Salazar mislead them. Both are guilty -- there is no assignment of guilt to just one responsible party.
I have been talking the whole time about the accumulation of all the results combined from USADA, the AAA, the CAS, IOC and WADA and the AIU, from regular anti-doping testing to detailed investigations. The matter at hand includes all NOP athletes from all possible anti-doping bodies, which includes WADA and the IOC.
Final facts leading to Salazar's violations: Salazar doped his sons with testosterone. Salazar created the circumstances for Magness committing his own rule violation with a 1L infusion. NOP athletes? No evidence of testosterone or excessive infusion -- therefore no charge. They ony received an email (Salazar's "tampering" violation). Receiving an email is not a violation for the NOP athletes.
* It was high risk for G Rupp to race Houston 1/2 Marathon 20 days before 2024 U.S. Olympic Trial Marathon. [No need for twenty-somethings and men & women in early thirties to tell me 20 days is plenty recovery.]
* If Galen Rupp felt he needed a tune up race 20 days prior, a 10K road race would have been okay.
* If G Rupp felt he needed to race a 1/2 Marathon tune up race 20 days before an important Marathon, G Rupp should have raced 1/2 Marathon in trainers and raced slower than 67:30.
If I read that correctly: "56. USADA alleged the following ADRVs against Mr. Salazar ...".
Maybe there is another section where USADA alleges ADRVs against NOP athletes?
That isn't spinning? That isn't semantics? Your original statement was "No spin. No semantics. NOP athletes? No evidence. No charges. No sanctions. Vetted by USADA." And I have correctly shown that the charges against Salazar by the very same USADA didn't just include Magness but also "Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn".
FYI, Magness was never charged either, so that isn't really the right criterion to judge what Salazar did to which athlete.
Final facts leading to Salazar's violations: Salazar doped his sons with testosterone. Salazar created the circumstances for Magness committing his own rule violation with a 1L infusion. NOP athletes? No evidence of testosterone or excessive infusion -- therefore no charge. They ony received an email (Salazar's "tampering" violation). Receiving an email is not a violation for the NOP athletes.
This isn't just spinning anymore. It is outright dishonesty, as you yourself just repeated earlier:
The charges against Salazar included NOP athletes "Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn". So there were charges and therefore evidence (which is also detailed in those various reports!), but CAS considered the evidence - in contrast to USADA - as insufficient for a conviction.
If I read that correctly: "56. USADA alleged the following ADRVs against Mr. Salazar ...".
Maybe there is another section where USADA alleges ADRVs against NOP athletes?
That isn't spinning? That isn't semantics? Your original statement was "No spin. No semantics. NOP athletes? No evidence. No charges. No sanctions. Vetted by USADA." And I have correctly shown that the charges against Salazar by the very same USADA didn't just include Magness but also "Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn".
FYI, Magness was never charged either, so that isn't really the right criterion to judge what Salazar did to which athlete.
Correct. That isn't spin. That isn't semantics. Just the plain meaning of words as they are meant to be. I have repeatedly explained, my comments were about NOP athletes, not Salazar, and you are continuing the same error.
My "original" statement was in fact: "No NOP athlete was ever charged for doping, and Salazar was not convicted for doping any NOP athlete, unless you want to count Magness' excess infusion, for which Magness was not charged."
Khamis, now with your help, for reasons he cannot explain, has convinced himself that these clear and unambiguous and so far unrefuted statements are somehow lies, or spin, or semantics, or some kind of passionate defense and absolvement of Salazar.
For reference, what "charge" means in the context of anti-doping, as one of the necessary preliminary steps leading to a finding of an ADRV, can be found in WADA's "International Standards of Results Management".
What you found was clearly labelled an allegation of an ADRV against Mr. Salazar. It is not a charge against NOP athletes. In other words: "NOP athletes? No charge."
Furthermore, I did not judge or attempt to judge what Salazar did to his athletes. I summarized the accumulated status as of today for all NOP athletes from all test results and anti-doping investigations for all time, with and without Salazar's alleged involvement.
Final facts leading to Salazar's violations: Salazar doped his sons with testosterone. Salazar created the circumstances for Magness committing his own rule violation with a 1L infusion. NOP athletes? No evidence of testosterone or excessive infusion -- therefore no charge. They ony received an email (Salazar's "tampering" violation). Receiving an email is not a violation for the NOP athletes.
This isn't just spinning anymore. It is outright dishonesty, as you yourself just repeated earlier:
The charges against Salazar included NOP athletes "Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn". So there were charges and therefore evidence (which is also detailed in those various reports!), but CAS considered the evidence - in contrast to USADA - as insufficient for a conviction.
Dishonesty on your part.
There was evidence of infusions(/injections?), but not of "excessive" infusions against NOP athletes.
There were charges against Salazar, but "NOP athletes? ... no charge."
Before you continue further down the road of splitting the "no evidence" hairs, there was ambiguous evidence for "testosterone medication" for Rupp.
" My claim is that no matter where you look, anywhere and everywhere, you will fail to find any formal charge against any NOP athlete by any anti-doping organization in its entire history of existence, whether it is from anti-doping testing, or thorough investigation."
That's YOUR CLAIM, it's not supported by the majority of Americans, LRC folks and running experts. You want me to get Rojo on here to check with him if your claim is valid or hogwash??? Dun try me, dun let my Rojo embarrass spin doctors like you lol!!!
Obviously there will not be a formal charge against any NOP athlete because the entire AAA and USADA report FUNDAMENTALLY (in your own words) states that Salaazar MISLEAD them into believing that everything was legal, was safe, and within rules!!!! You have just blatantly lied again you idiot!!! So this is why the charge is against Salaazar but it does not change the fact that NOP athletes were ultimately and finally DOPED UP BY HIM!!!! It's just that the burden of guilt is on Salaazar and your splitting hairs over whether NOP athletes are guilty is irrelevant on these 2 points!!! Your claim is therefore disproved!!!
You can also end your nebulous fixation with the difference between NOP athletes and Salaazar in my reply because this is a well-time distraction and misdirection spinning from you hahaha!!!
None of you bringing up WADA and IOC has any relevance for the actual matter at hand now. They only serve to distract and spin us away from Salaazar misdirecting his athletes in order to dope them up!!!! The final facts are that Salaazar and his athletes are all dopers and doping whether intentional or unintentional!!! Of course his athletes could be a little more proactive in asking questions but that's a completely different matter altogether. The amount of authority Salaazar wielded and Nike's influence also meant that was difficult to achieve.
It's not just my claim -- Tygart said as much. Who would know better than Tygart?
You seem to find the trick in another thread. Just give me one counter-example. Something like "You Will Be Sorry" tried to do, but only without the obvious fail. Ask your "majority of Americans, LRC folks and running experts" for help. Go ahead and ask Rojo.
FYI, due to the principle of strict liability, athletes are responsible for whatever goes in their bodies. If Salazar doped NOP athletes, both Salazar and the athlete committed rule violations, even if Salazar mislead them. Both are guilty -- there is no assignment of guilt to just one responsible party.
I have been talking the whole time about the accumulation of all the results combined from USADA, the AAA, the CAS, IOC and WADA and the AIU, from regular anti-doping testing to detailed investigations. The matter at hand includes all NOP athletes from all possible anti-doping bodies, which includes WADA and the IOC.
Final facts leading to Salazar's violations: Salazar doped his sons with testosterone. Salazar created the circumstances for Magness committing his own rule violation with a 1L infusion. NOP athletes? No evidence of testosterone or excessive infusion -- therefore no charge. They ony received an email (Salazar's "tampering" violation). Receiving an email is not a violation for the NOP athletes.
Not really, it depends, there can be extenuating circumstances for why athletes may not always be responsible for whatever goes in their bodies. An example is mental illness? Another is if I point a gun at your head or similar as Salaazar has such power and authority to wield. Instead it would be more accurate to say that the entire coaching team and staff are altogether responsible for what goes into each other's bodies.
As Khamis, our King has said, it's all about the spirit of the rule and not merely the letter. Due to this, one must either always side with caution as such caution is intended in the spirit of the rule. The caution I advice everyone is that since AAA has found evidence on Salaazar of tampering, administration and trafficking, it's impossible not to think that he is both unethical coach, and has nefarious intentions of all causes including doping up his athletes. This is the only 'spirit-esque' conclusion that 'fits best' with tampering, administration and trafficking' because you must always take caution in favor of WADA's rules not against it. You do not absolve Salaazar of guilt, you instead persecute and indict him due to caution and 'spirit-esque'.
The writing is on the wall: rekrunner is an Alberto Salaazar yes-man.
Trying to find a convenient way out for Salaazar with words and the order in which it was said and when confronted with it by 10 people on LRC including our RF genius Khamis, he deflects it with yet more word tricks.
Rekrunner should be exhibiting such meticulous-ness to defend the underprivileged, disabled, war-stricken, famined, and less fortunate people. He should use all his skills in defending Salaazar to defend the cause of human rights and injustice around the world, including the people who have suffered and died at the hands of man-made electromagnetic technology, air pollution etc. Why defend a useless good for nothing Salaazar?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
There was evidence of infusions(/injections?), but not of "excessive" infusions against NOP athletes.
There were charges against Salazar, but "NOP athletes? ... no charge."
Before you continue further down the road of splitting the "no evidence" hairs, there was ambiguous evidence for "testosterone medication" for Rupp.
Of course there was evidence for the excessive infusions. See charge no. 56/9 as cited:
9. Administration and/or attempted administration of additional over limit L-carnitine infusions to Mr Ritzenhein, Ms. Begay, Ms. Grunnagle, Mr. Rupp and Mr. Horn during December 2011 through January 2012, and/or complicity in the foregoing infusions
You are spinning around with your new semantics about "charges against" versus "charges about" (which would apply equally to Magness), and outright lying when claiming "no evidence".
Or is your new claim now that USADA charged that without evidence, just for the fun of it? Then read the rest of the document, where the evidence is detailed.
Correct. That isn't spin. That isn't semantics. Just the plain meaning of words as they are meant to be. I have repeatedly explained, my comments were about NOP athletes, not Salazar, and you are continuing the same error.
Now you are slipping with your semantics. Yes, your "comments were about NOP athletes", and I showed you repeatedly the charges about NOP athletes. The errors are all yours, on purpose it seems.
Just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning ...
Stop wasting your time with rekrunner, I've had the same deceptive experience with him as well lol!!! He seems hell bent on playing the semantical game both with Salaazar and NOP athletes as well as anthropogenic RF and EMF harmful effects on sport performance!!
The behavior he exhibits towards Salaazar and NOP is exactly the same one towards anthropogenic RF and EMF harmful effects on sport performance. He requires past tense word for word discipline lol!!! But when it's required of him to produce the same discipline he was strangely absent. He said something like "no doping charges were ever brought against NOP athletes or Salaazar" based on AAA's findings, but AAA had never said that word for word in the past tense!!! LOL, I realized he was bluffing me the whole time!!!
Salaazar should really sexually assault one of his women and the best lawyers in the country most well adept at semantics be sought to defend Salaazar to set him free while his women cry and wallow in sorrow forever!
He seems hell bent on playing the semantical game both with Salaazar and NOP athletes as well as anthropogenic RF and EMF harmful effects on sport performance!!
Indeed he claims that charges about cheating athletes are irrelevant, as long as they are not charges against them LOL. #rekrunnerlogic
For sure one cannot ever find charges against Rupp or Magness in the CAS or AAA decision about charges against Salazar, meaning they did nothing wrong LOL. #rekrunnerlogic
If and when Rupp or Magness gets charged, rekrunner will then triumphantly claim that Salazar did nothing wrong because he wasn't charged in those documents LOL. #rekrunnerlogic
Of course there was evidence for the excessive infusions. See charge no. 56/9 as cited:
You are spinning around with your new semantics about "charges against" versus "charges about" (which would apply equally to Magness), and outright lying when claiming "no evidence".
Or is your new claim now that USADA charged that without evidence, just for the fun of it? Then read the rest of the document, where the evidence is detailed.
56/9 looks like an allegation in need of evidence, rather than evidence, and is certainly does not constitute evidence of "excess".
Once again, to unwind your spin, I refer you back to the original for the original subjects, verbs, and objects:
"No NOP athlete was ever charged for doping, and Salazar was not convicted for doping any NOP athlete".
Correct. That isn't spin. That isn't semantics. Just the plain meaning of words as they are meant to be. I have repeatedly explained, my comments were about NOP athletes, not Salazar, and you are continuing the same error.
Now you are slipping with your semantics. Yes, your "comments were about NOP athletes", and I showed you repeatedly the charges about NOP athletes. The errors are all yours, on purpose it seems.
Just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning, just keep spinning ...
The error is all yours.
My comments were "about NOP athletes".
In unrelated news, some USADA charges against Salazar were also "about NOP athletes".
These are independent statements.
Salazar was charged. NOP athletes were not charged.
Stop wasting your time with rekrunner, I've had the same deceptive experience with him as well lol!!! He seems hell bent on playing the semantical game both with Salaazar and NOP athletes as well as anthropogenic RF and EMF harmful effects on sport performance!!
The behavior he exhibits towards Salaazar and NOP is exactly the same one towards anthropogenic RF and EMF harmful effects on sport performance. He requires past tense word for word discipline lol!!! But when it's required of him to produce the same discipline he was strangely absent. He said something like "no doping charges were ever brought against NOP athletes or Salaazar" based on AAA's findings, but AAA had never said that word for word in the past tense!!! LOL, I realized he was bluffing me the whole time!!!
Salaazar should really sexually assault one of his women and the best lawyers in the country most well adept at semantics be sought to defend Salaazar to set him free while his women cry and wallow in sorrow forever!
There are similarities, as you both seem to refuting the wrong subject, spending many words on Salazar, not relevant to my claims about NOP athletes.
You claim RF/EMF harms sport performance. Very interesting, as I am interested in things that help or hurt sport performance. Then, when I ask "tell me more about the link to sport performance?", you spend many words on RF/EMF and none on sport performance.
The writing is on the wall: rekrunner is an Alberto Salaazar yes-man.
Trying to find a convenient way out for Salaazar with words and the order in which it was said and when confronted with it by 10 people on LRC including our RF genius Khamis, he deflects it with yet more word tricks.
Rekrunner should be exhibiting such meticulous-ness to defend the underprivileged, disabled, war-stricken, famined, and less fortunate people. He should use all his skills in defending Salaazar to defend the cause of human rights and injustice around the world, including the people who have suffered and died at the hands of man-made electromagnetic technology, air pollution etc. Why defend a useless good for nothing Salaazar?
Is this Khamis using another account? Who else would consistently misspell "Salaazar"?
In this thread, about NOP athlete Galen Rupp, I was trying to be an "NOP athletes" yes-man.
Stop wasting your time with rekrunner, I've had the same deceptive experience with him as well lol!!!
I start to realize that. Live and learn.
Do you think he is just trolling, spreading propaganda, or being a super blind fan?
No he is not trolling, he is besotted with Salaazar damn it!!! This is why I need Salaazar to put his bare hands on one of his women to test him out!!!
