Japanese Marathoners - Why are they so much better than the Americans?

This is a great thread. Keep the discussion going.

because they run slowly and they don't train like idiots do in the usa. more mileage too which is key

Gulp once wrote:

Nice post, but the truth is americans are not factors in major marathons. ( yes we have done well at championships relatively speaking, Rupp and Meb.

American elite marathon times are some of slowest by any country.

Americans as a whole have slowed down. American elite distance runners start the marathon too late in age to maximize their best potential.

Key your eye on the upcoming spring marathons , facts speak louder than words.

Que? Not a factor in major marathons? Rupp is a factor in any major marathons he is in. Who do you think won Chicago in 2017?? Only a precious few can beat Rupp. As long as he is not retired, the US is #3 in the world.

Another reason that the Japanese are running better marathons than the U.S. is because top marathoners in Japan are trying to run with the best in the world. And except for Galen all other U.S. marathoners are just trying to be the best in United States. The pinnacle of which is to make our Olympic team.

Does the marathon matter to anyone?

Only the slowpokes end up going for the marathon.

Next step up is the Ultra...the final step towards complete shame.

Several reasons:

Genetically Japanese men are typically stronger from an endurance perspective, being better than Americans at a plethora of endurance sports: running/walking/skiing and rowing.

The Japanese psyche is heavily influenced by drive and commitment, not half hearted attempts.

The Japanese athlete lacks vanity, and doesn’t post photos of a track on Instagram every 5 minutes.

The Japanese athlete isn’t lazy or interested in supplements. They train hard and put in the work.

Easy really.

que?? wrote:

Gulp once wrote:

Nice post, but the truth is americans are not factors in major marathons. ( yes we have done well at championships relatively speaking, Rupp and Meb.

American elite marathon times are some of slowest by any country.

Americans as a whole have slowed down. American elite distance runners start the marathon too late in age to maximize their best potential.

Key your eye on the upcoming spring marathons , facts speak louder than words.

Que? Not a factor in major marathons? Rupp is a factor in any major marathons he is in. Who do you think won Chicago in 2017?? Only a precious few can beat Rupp. As long as he is not retired, the US is #3 in the world.

Rupp got spanked in Chicago last year by Osako you fool. It was a devastating loss for him especially because it came very late in the race. So much for that 10k PR speed he's supposed to just be able to throw down. As if that's really a thing that happens in an honest race. After Rupp retires I don't see anyone coming in from the wings to represent the US. Our focus on middle distance is too strong.

que?? wrote:

Gulp once wrote:

Nice post, but the truth is americans are not factors in major marathons. ( yes we have done well at championships relatively speaking, Rupp and Meb.

American elite marathon times are some of slowest by any country.

Americans as a whole have slowed down. American elite distance runners start the marathon too late in age to maximize their best potential.

Key your eye on the upcoming spring marathons , facts speak louder than words.

Que? Not a factor in major marathons? Rupp is a factor in any major marathons he is in. Who do you think won Chicago in 2017?? Only a precious few can beat Rupp. As long as he is not retired, the US is #3 in the world.

Except for his 2018 marathons!

Correct Fact of the Matter wrote:

Several reasons:

Genetically Japanese men are typically stronger from an endurance perspective, being better than Americans at a plethora of endurance sports: running/walking/skiing and rowing.

The Japanese psyche is heavily influenced by drive and commitment, not half hearted attempts.

The Japanese athlete lacks vanity, and doesn’t post photos of a track on Instagram every 5 minutes.

The Japanese athlete isn’t lazy or interested in supplements. They train hard and put in the work.

Easy really.

+1

Takinadump wrote:

que?? wrote:

Que? Not a factor in major marathons? Rupp is a factor in any major marathons he is in. Who do you think won Chicago in 2017?? Only a precious few can beat Rupp. As long as he is not retired, the US is #3 in the world.

Rupp got spanked in Chicago last year by Osako you fool. It was a devastating loss for him especially because it came very late in the race. So much for that 10k PR speed he's supposed to just be able to throw down. As if that's really a thing that happens in an honest race. After Rupp retires I don't see anyone coming in from the wings to represent the US. Our focus on middle distance is too strong.

Lol. Rupp was running injured in Chicago and you know it. It is amazing that he pushed through the pain to finish the race.

You dumb enough to think that that's all he had after he showed his incredible ability on that fast run on a tougher Prague course that had bad pacing?

Seiko timekeeper wrote:

What is the average Japanese male height and weight? Isn’t it like 5’5” and 110 lbs? Makes a huge difference, both in training durability and in a race as long as 42.2k.

Same for women. Throw in a culture completely immersed in distance running and you are bound to have depth and produce more than a few studs.

+1

Bigger talent pool due to the way the average person is shaped. Simple as that.

Walk around in Japan and look at random people around you. Literally half of the people you see around you have distance runners' body builds. Average height is around 5'7" or 5'8", but there are plenty of six-foot people with long limbs everywhere too (great for middle distance, but not necessarily the marathon).

How about in America? It's gotta be less than 10%. Keep in mind that around 70% of all Americans are overweight with BMIs over 25, and about 30% are obese. Most of us are too heavy, too fat, too weak, or way too muscular, with ectomorphs singled out for being different and bullied. Whereas being ectomorphic in Japan is normal, commonplace, and seen as a good thing.

RUPP IS TOAST!!!!!!!!!

Fixed it for you too.

What are you talking about? wrote:

Japan's national record is 60:17. With 3 men under 60:30 for the half.

America national record is 59:43. With only 4 men under 60:30.

Different distribution curves.

Here's how it works.

Japanese "max out" as they reach the 60-minute mark, so they don't have that many top grade-A elite runners who can compete with top African Olympians. Grade-A elite runners tend to be mostly Africans, with some Caucasians too.

What Japan does have is a staggeringly huge pool of grade-B elite and sub-elite talent, way more than the US.

Grade-A elite: Lots of Africans, some whites, few Japanese

Grade-B elite: Lots of Africans, lots of Japanese, some whites

Sub-elite: Lots of Africans, lots of Japanese, some more whites

distribution curves wrote:

What are you talking about? wrote:

Japan's national record is 60:17. With 3 men under 60:30 for the half.

America national record is 59:43. With only 4 men under 60:30.

Different distribution curves.

Here's how it works.

Japanese "max out" as they reach the 60-minute mark, so they don't have that many top grade-A elite runners who can compete with top African Olympians. Grade-A elite runners tend to be mostly Africans, with some Caucasians too.

What Japan does have is a staggeringly huge pool of grade-B elite and sub-elite talent, way more than the US.

Grade-A elite: Lots of Africans, some whites, few Japanese

Grade-B elite: Lots of Africans, lots of Japanese, some whites

Sub-elite: Lots of Africans, lots of Japanese, some more whites

Is this a joke? Grade-A elite should be top 25 in the world at the most. That makes the time for a half around 59:45.

There are actually two Americans that could have fit the Grade-A status.

Japanese have no grade-A runners.

Grade-B is 1:00:30 and under. After that its just hobby joggers running for participation medals.

hobby joggers are not elite wrote:

Is this a joke? Grade-A elite should be top 25 in the world at the most. That makes the time for a half around 59:45.

There are actually two Americans that could have fit the Grade-A status.

Japanese have no grade-A runners.

Grade-B is 1:00:30 and under. After that its just hobby joggers running for participation medals.

Or, Japanese runners use half marathon races as a workout leading up to there marathon. So, they don't taper and don't run there full potential for the half.

For example:

Bekele PB for the half is only 60:09 on a down hill course. Yet, he is the third fastest man ever at the marathon.

Or, take Sisay Lemma. His half marathon PB is only 62:06 and his marathon PB is 2:04:08. Yet according to you, his half marathon PB means he is only a B level runner.

Take the American record holder at the marathon. Khalid Khannouchi fastest half marathon PB on a legitimate course is only 60:28. So according to you he only barely passes as a grade A runner? Yet his marathon PB is 2:05:38. Also interesting, Khalid is similar to the Japanese as far as his PBs at the shorter distances. With a 5000m PB of 13:41, and a 10k road PB of 27:48.

Imagine all the runners in America who have no chance of winning a medal in the middle distance events to the 5000m/10000m. And, instead if they started focusing on the longer distances starting in high school? At the very least we should add some road relays in high school and college(5k-8k per leg in high school and 10k to half marathon legs in college). And for the 10000m specialist in college, add some road races (ranging from 8k to half marathon)instead of indoor track races for them to focus on. Some people don't have speed, so they need to focus on strength. If we focussed on this aspect, we would have better development and more depth in the marathon in America.

Keep in mind that America has 3 times the population of Japan.

Is America 3 times better than Japan?

No.

If Japan had America's population, where would they be now?

Some Japanese runners have been showing up at our local parkrun and are finishing way ahead of everybody else. The only thing I notice is that they must weigh half of the rest of us at the same height.

These are the guys we need to look at and ask ourselves why the US isn't producing more sub 2:10 marathoners. We need to start here, it's a mentality. Martin and Culpepper had elite track times but Morris and Lawson did not. Sub 2:10 is attainable for at least 10 US athletes per year, still not great on the world level but we need to move the status quo to 2:10 and improve from there. Also, note that to be really fair and conservative I removed all Boston times and unusually talented athletes, (Khannouchi, Ritz and Abdi). Athletes have more support and training opportunities now than ever before in the US so there is no reason to not be posting better results.

12. David Morris—2:09:32, Chicago Marathon, 1999

13. Jerry Lawson—2:09:35, Chicago Marathon, 1997

14. Ken Martin— 2:09:38, New York City Marathon, 1989

15. Alan Culpepper—2:09:41, Chicago Marathon, 2002

fromtheheart wrote:

Some Japanese runners have been showing up at our local parkrun and are finishing way ahead of everybody else. The only thing I notice is that they must weigh half of the rest of us at the same height.

The weight element is due to running a 100+ miles a week. Ritzenhien is about the same height and weight of many of the elite Japanese marathoners, yet he is a American. I remember reading something in a running world magazine(not subscribed to them, I was just in a library a few years ago and was just flipping through some of there magazines) said something like from a survey of their readers in the late 60s, that there average reader was reported to be male, 5'9 and 140 ibs(what is the average running world reader now? My guess is female, 5'4 and 150 ibs?). For comparison, the average American male in the early 60s was 5'9 and 160 ibs and females in the early 60s were something like 5'4 and 130 ibs(today they are basically the same height, but about 30 ibs heavier). One of the main things though from the Japanese vs Americans, when it comes to eating. Is that in America we are taught to clean off your plate, because there are starving kids in other countries(never understood this logic. Because kids are starving in other countries, we should over eat?). And in Japan, they are taught to only eat till they are 3/4 full. So portion control is one reason why the average Japanese is lighter than the average American. Now also keep in mind, is that they walk a lot more than the average American. They also eat higher quality of food compared to the average American. Also, even though we think of there diet as being a high carb diet. They do put emphasis on protein. Especially there runners, eat a lot of eggs, fish, and beef(if you are doing a lot of catabolic damage to your body via mileage you have to rebuild it via high quality animal protein). Yes, they do eat rice(usually white rice) and noodles.