Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/19

Numbersguy- Glad to hear the massage fixed you up. The No Frills idea sounds like the best medicine right now-though maybe I'm projecting what I want/need! Have fun!

Slartzio- I can't recommend ART/graston highly enough. Last time I hurt my hamstring, two weeks off with gentle stretching, foam rolling, icing, etc, had NO affect on my injury. A really good ART/graston guy had me running pain-free in two visits. I SHOULD have kept up with seeing him to fix the root cause of the injury and am dealing with the fallout from that now. Also, if you have bad hammies, you probably have worse glutes. When the glutes are weak, the hamstrings have to work overtime while running and it's no good at all.

Pikachu- you're an animal, man. (in case we're dealing with a slight language barrier here, that's a high compliment when it comes from someone in my neck of the woods). If you stay healthy, I think you're going to crush your marathon PR. Any races coming up?

themack- Nice minimalist 80+ mi week. What's your plan for between now and Chicago?

Pablo- very nice on the 400s. Do you have a specific block of sessions for the half planned out?

CMM268- Isn't that the f***ing truth? Sorry to hear, hope you feel better soon.

VF Runner- kudos for gutting it out. Enjoy some well-earned downtime!

John Berryman- I go through phases where I drink more or less, I suppose. I guess on average, a beer while I cook dinner and a beer with dinner is usual for most weeknights where I'm home to cook dinner. One night of the weekend might a little more wild, but rarely to the point where I have to modify my run the next day. When I'm hurt or building mileage, I try to drink less to avoid putting on weight.

More comments later, have to actually do some work now.

Oh, and thank you for all your kind words, group at large. I had my second session of ART/graston today and will try a little jog after work. Everything feels good.

Pablo- BTW, very impressive ins/outs workout. It blows my mind to see someone able to run that fast in a 4 mile workout. I might try ins/outs one of these days, its kind of like a fartlik based on distance rather than time.

VF Runner - Sorry for the confusion. Meeting so many people in Boston, it was tough remembering the names and the handles. Thanks again for setting me up with Patrick. Was good to have someone to share a beer with and talk about what might have been post-race!

Everyone else - thanks for the words of support. Enjoy the last of spring and gear up for summer training season. I'm going to take it easy these next five weeks (marathon notwithstanding) and then train smart and see what it is I'm made of in Chicago on October 13 (one year to the day after my only sub-3, for whatever that's worth.)

P.S. If anyone in the northeast is looking for a half marathon, I'm signing up for the Dutchess County Classic on Sunday Sept. 15. Flat course, reasonably professionally run, 75 miles north of NYC, great timing if you're training for a mid to late fall marathon.

Page 2 comments:

john berryman - quite the progression on your runs - do you maintain that strategy for all your maintenance runs once you introduce quality, or is that a pre-season introduction to some turnover?

easy weeks - congrats so far, man, looking good!

Edgemont Dave - you had me laughing at the "I'll always have Hartford!" comment. You gave it a go on a tough course and didn't have it that day. Does that mean you're no longer a sub-3:00 marathoner? No, it means you're mortal. If you're serious about finding your real potential, then devote a cycle to it and do it the way you feel is the "right" way. But it sounds to me like you have a lot of fun doing your Marathon Mystery Tour, so the best advice I can give is follow your real passion. If you are willingly going to devote so much of your time to something, make it something you are passionate about.

grizz - I hope by now the annoying blip is less annoying and less of a blip. Sounds like you are being smart though.

SteveinAlaska - in spite of your IT band issue, it sure looks like you are maintaining fitness. God bless all of you who can diligently cross train - I honestly have such a hard time doing non-running activities.

Bonham - very impressive week for you, and to top it off, you were rewarded with a new running route. I try to collect those things like gold coins. :)

Rushed - despite not feeling great you ran a nicely balanced week.

NJ Truth - glad there was an off day in there for you after last weekend's heroics. Those repetition-type sessions always get me two days after the workout also.

Team Bartowski - we got some great comedians this week - loved the Gorbachev reference! :) Congrats on the weekly total.

Ghola - small world! Despite our age difference, I am sure we must know some mutual runners. I train with a group from the Moorestown Running Company and still do a lot of my running in Haddonfield. In fact, the Tavistock loop (Washington Ave., Upland Way, Greenmount, Triple Hill, etc.) was my go-to marathon pace hilly loop for Gettysburg. Great to see local runners still following the dream. :)

Renewed Marathoner - hope you find some relief for the foot pain.

Muebele - I see a massage therapist who specializes in Reflexology (feet-based massage) and ART, and is also well-versed in general sports massage. Because she is so well-rounded I feel like she is able to customize my treatment using a variety of different methodologies. I know it would be a hike for you to see her (she's based in Haddonfield, NJ) but she offers weekend hours and your family could stroll through Haddonfield's great shopping district during your appointment time. Email me if you want her contact info.

Reg Fields - yet another great week for you, it must feel like you are on a roll! :)

@grizz glad to hear that, I will definitely try that

@xenonscreams I tried the stick but I do prefer the foam roller too, it seems I can get a bit more pressure.

Wow. 4 pages to comment already. I'm finally gonna work my way through as much as possible. For anyone I don't single out... "Nice week, keep it up. Stay/get healthy!"

Numbersguy Welcome back to training. I haven't picked any next goal yet, I think one way or another I focus on some of the same stuff for the next month or two.

Pikachu I know I keep saying it, but damn man, what a week.

Pablo Pablo quarters, nice! I think that may be a workout I use as I try to ramp back up after my recovery.

xenon I always love reading about your week. You have such a great attitude about everything and I usually get a good laugh or two from your posts.

Slatzio (and everyone) Don't ever forget that you are an experiment of one. Who cares what anyone else says. Find the shoe/running form combination that works for YOU and go with it.

np1112 Good luck with the next few weeks and re taper.

Edgemont Nice job again. I'll toast to your comment about the drinking! And no worries on the names. Heck cyhawk was faster than I was at Boston so I should take it as a compliment.

Grizz/SteveAK Good luck getting healthy you guys.

NJ truth Nice workout. I bet the next one feels a whole lot smoother.

Team Bart Sounds like the build up may be going better than you realized. Keep it up.

Muebele Possibly, though it's more craving variety that would keep me from doing it again next year, not superstition.

Gmuze We may not all comment about it, but I'm pretty sure most of us have occasional Sunday morning runs in that condition.

Feather Sorry about the whimper. Some nice work in there this week so at least it looks like you may be able to make your whoring profitable.

Page 3 comments:

Gmuze - my wife and family calls me a numbers guy not because I am so obsessed with my times or anything (I used to be, but have become more mellow about it), but because I have an uncanny ability to recall any and all numbers (e.g., phone numbers, birth dates, sports statistics, etc.). I guess it started when I was a kid and I was really into baseball statistics. The ability stuck with me, I guess. Maybe I should have been a math teacher or an accountant.

VF Runner - I enjoyed your race report. I hope you enjoy your rest weeks!

ipaidforthis - welcome!

has been - very solid first track workout!

Bonham - I am always a fan of "extending" speed (or strength, or distance) over a season. So if say you have accomplished 12x400 at a given pace, move onto 8x600 then 6x800 then 4x1200, etc., as the season goes on. Same with strength/tempo sessions - start with say 10x1k, then 6x1mi, 4x1.5mi, 2x3mi, etc. You extend the distance at which you can comfortably run pace X. The Hansons use this exact methodology in their marathon plan.

Alternatively, I find that when I too quickly try to increase pace X, I flirt with injury or overtraining. The first scenario is usually the safer bet for me. My two cents.

Feather - major bummer about missing the cut. Like you said, you are really starting to come into fitness nicely and some road whoring is one way to let it out. Best of luck.

printer - sounds like your body is telling you thanks for the break. Hope you can put together some steadier training soon.

Under the gun a bit, so going to hit the racers and cripples . . .

@cmm - hope your injury is nothing serious. seems like a weird time to pick up an injury.

@VF - i know you didn't get your sub-2:50, but sounds like a difficult day. congrats on the high placing and take some well deserved rest.

@Edgemont - I think you might have mixed up your handles, don't think I knew anyone doing that marathon. congrats on notching another state on your quest.

@grizz - sorry to hear that, get better soon.

@Steve - all these injuries are freaking me out. maybe i'll do some stretching after i'm done here.

Wow, the comments are flying in this week. I'll try to comment more tomorrow, perhaps in a break from work:)

Edgemont Dave-congrats again on the race and your placing. It looks like we share similar goals for the fall. Chicago and trying to keep the food and drink in check, which never happens for me in the summer;)

grizz-sorry to hear about your injury. Sounds like your ART session went well and you have it in check.

SteveInAlaska-Hopefully with the rest and cross training you'll come back stronger than ever. There are quite a few people here in DC that have elliptigo's on the trails I run on. Things look pretty cool:)

Bonham-Great work on that 400 session! How long were your rests intervals?

Rushed -I would say your legs are well on their way to rebounding given yesterdays workout.

NJ Truth-Its been so long since I've done an R workout (3 weeks before Boston?)that I am scared to crank it up again and see what my legs do. Great times in that workout.

NP112-Thanks, good luck with the 3 big weeks coming up.

cyhawk- I think it's because I started to add these 9 "form" drills to the end of my workouts which was stupid of me to do while increasing my base. Hopefully it's just a strained shin muscle that needs a few days of rest. Still pretty painful today but not as bad as Saturday.

Goal: Philadelphia Half (9/15) in 1:17.xx

Mon: Off

Tue: 12mi easy

Wed: 12mi w/ 10x(:45s @ 5k/2:45 @ Moderate, averaged 6:30 pace here)

Thu: 5.5mi easy + plyo

Fri: 6.6mi easy

Sat: 8mi w/ 8x400, 400 jog recover. Most in 80-81s, one in 79, a couple in the 82-83 range.

Sun: 7mi easy + plyo.

Total: 51mi

Saturday's 8x400 was the first time I have ever done something like that and it did not go very well. I was targeting a pace based on Jack Daniels VDOT tables and my most recent half marathon time. I was supposed to do 76 or 77s per lap, but wasn't even close. So I've found a pretty obvious weakness in my running. Hopefully I respond to training and improve. Clearly, I don't have much natural speed.

bartowski: looks like a really good week. nice score on the shorts!

ghola: what is the goal race for your high intensity low volume training?

renewed: hope that foot pain goes away. sounds weird like you said.

muebele: what are "ad-hoc" workouts?

reg fields: nice week. cant remember, do you plan to maintain the mileage or bump it up some?

NJ: 5k time 2 weeks ago was 1640 by my watch and 1636 race. This week was 1647 race and 1631 gps watch. Hope to do some 5k specific stuff one of these days

gmuze: i dont see how you guys can do hangover runs haha

ipaidforthis: dont know much specifics on injuries. but you cant go wrong with ice, rest, elevation, and ice haha.

has been: good to hear you are ahead of last years fitness.

steve: yah that would be a PR time for me. I think i will consider it my non official PR haha. But plan to keep knocking that time down every race. coach says we may do some speedwork after grandmas. I cant imagine trying to deal with the weather like you. would be very frustrating. do you think the elliptigo is a good cross training tool?

feather: the hills were just spur of the moment. I went to cool down on the half marathon course and wait for a friend to finish with her. Decided to do the hills while waiting hah. what event did you miss the cut in? that would be tough! looks like you had a great week. hope your fitness gets to where you want it and have fun on the roads

pikachu: sounds good. still need to try one of these fartleks that everyone talks about and does. i just forget haha

printer: do you have any tris coming up? hope the leg pain goes away quickly.

cyhawk: speed takes a lot longer to get than aerobic base. and like you said some people have it naturally and some dont. good thing your goal is a half and you dont need much speed for that!

NJ truth: Cool. Especially once the undergrads are gone (most imminently, seniors in a couple of weeks but I imagine they'll have things to do) having more training partners will be a big boost. I've joined the club officially, so I'm quickly getting up to speed! And that wasn't me on Saturday (didn't run until later, and not on the towpath). Presence of a lady friend should have given that away! (OK, sometimes I do run with some of the varsity women)

Anyway, last week had a definite aerobic focus, except for the lack of a long run on Sunday. Was feeling pretty tired at that point, but I think that was mostly because of sleep being disrupted a bit.

Next race: Probably this meet on the 31st:

http://goo.gl/MjY5Z

. Seems to be more 800/1500/mile focused than I am, but I guess I'm due a PR in one of those too.

M AM - 6 / PM - 9 with strides

T AM - 6 / PM - 9 with 6 mile steady state to hard pickup

W 9.5

Th AM - 5 / PM - 14.5 mostly with PJB (he can run for more than 8 miles now!)

F AM - 6 / PM - 12.5 with 6 medium, with Varsity runners (one male season over, one female still competing)

Sa PM1 - 6.5 slow, ate too much / PM2 - 2 with beer mile (plus penalty lap) in 10:18

Su - Off. Tired from the late night and waking up early (thanks, sun!) and wasn't really feeling it.

Total - 86

Tuesday workout: Started at around 5:50 pace, held around there, picked it up a bit with ~2 miles to go, then went hard after the last road crossing (.6 to go). GPS had us at about 5:50, 5:55, 5:50, 5:53, 5:43, 5:20.

Friday workout: Not going crazy (like that time she dropped me in March) since regionals is in a week. Did a warmup picking up the runners for the run, then got into the workout once we got back down to the towpath. Started at 6:20 or so and dropped down towards 6 flat by the last mile, then a lengthy cooldown.

Beer mile: Uh, I'm just going to say that going into a beer mile pretty certain that fluid will be ejected from your body but uncertain from which orifice is no good. Thankfully only puked, though.

Comments to come later, but I guess there are a lot of them to do at this point...

Numbersguy - bet we do! I went to college with the MRC owner's daughter. Not to totally reveal my identity or anything...oops. Actually, if you ever did the Haddonfield Running Co's Wednesday night runs, we've probably run together.

NP1112 - I'd like to do a fast mile on the track in July/August, but not sure where I'd find something like that. Anyone know of open track races coming up in the Mid-Atlantic?

CMM268, NP1112- There are 3 elliptigo models right now. They are the "3C", "8C", and "11R". The numbers represent how many gears they have. We have a "8C" model, since it was only a few hundred more than the basic version but much cheaper than the 11R. (seemed like it was the right balance). I would say they are a little harder to control than a bike, and I definitely got my heart rate up for the wrong reasons (i.e dodging cars) when I went on my first ride. I feel that I got a decent workout but it's too easy to just cruise if you get tired/lazy, so if you want a really good workout you have to find some hills, as apparently they are pretty sensitive to the slightest inclines. I have a 11-mile out-and-back route with rolling hills that I like to run so I am going to take it out there and test it out once the weather is a little warmer.

Cyhawk- That's your first "R" session in awhile right? Don't worry if you are a few seconds off the first couple of times, your body adapts and you'll be hitting your target times within 4-6 weeks if you are doing those workouts weekly.

Ghola- Did you say you are in Maryland now? Where at? I used to live in Columbia. I know the local club has a all-comers mile race in July every year.

http://www.striders.net/races/meet-of-miles

Also, if I know the Montgomery county striders have a "midsummer night mile" race that's fairly competitive. (usually won around 4:20) around that period. And the Baltimore road runners club have a few track races too. (http://www.brrc.com/grand-prix-series)

Grrr, lost my train of thought on the ellitigo posting there. The reason I mentioned the different models was to make the point that the model we have is missing a couple of gears that the "11R" model has that might make it even harder. As it is I have to put the 8C model on the highest gear just to get any sort of workout out of it, I can pedal pretty hard on that thing but it still feels like a moderate/steady effort. Like I said, I heard the thing is a b*tch to go uphills with, so I am going to go find some hills soon and put the theory to the test.

cmm – Thanks man. Don’t let the fear of being able to complete a R workout prevent you from jumping on the track. In the past, when 400 repeats wouldn’t fall my way, I’d cut them down to 300s. Once I couldn’t hold on to R pace for 300, I’d cut them down to 200s and so on. Quality over quantity. Just try your best to get as much of your goal work distance at R pace.

cyhawk – I subscribe to Daniels too. Something I’ve found that is helpful is doing 200 repeats first, before committing to 400s. Not because you’re unable to hitting your 400 times but because you need to get your legs back under you first. I’ve been as crazy as to try 20x200 before doing 10x400 to make sure I’m ready for it. Also, as I said to cmm, you can always cut your 400s down to 300s or 200s mid work out if that’s what it takes to keep you at pace. Quality over quantity.

NP – I just wanted to add that I love that you did some hill sprints after your 5k. That’s an excellent display of work ethic right there. Classic Galen Rupp move, working out after a race. Something I’ve never done!

StevenJ – Cool! So we’re officially teammates now? Excellent. If you’re a beer guy too, then this will be an awesome summer of running… lol

Ghola – Did you run cross country in high school? If so, how did you enjoy Holmdel? It’s been ten years (this November) since I’ve raced that course. I’d love to go back and see how I can do now as an adult.

Numbersguy – Nice first week back. I feel ya on the ITB. You, me, SteveInAlaska, des, and I’m sure many other can start an ITBS club. A club no one in their right mind would want to join!

xenonscreams – The way I look at it, we’re not professional runners. If a little beer every now and then is whats keeps you sane; do what you got to do! Personally, after running in college, running hung over has become a lot easier. Of course I’m drinking some wine as I write this response!

Pablo – I appreciate the words of confidence. I feel like you and I are similarly fit, but very different in what we run well. I’m hoping that a little more mile pace work will help me get closer of my goal of breaking 15. Glad to hear I’m not the only one who has trouble with 400s at mile pace.

Bonham – Thanks Bonham! Your 10x400 puts my 6x400 to shame! I think it’s pretty awesome that you did that workout on a trail too. Your mile repeats were awesome too. Kudos! What’s your goal race(s)/time(s)?

SteveInAlaska – My pleasure dude. Any injury can be pretty miserable. So I’ll keep doing whatever I can to keep you in high spirits. Again, thinking long term is the way to go, because you’ll be back before you know it.

NJ truth: I don't know man, it's a combination of really small things that got me from getting cut from my college team (aka pretty slow) to where I am now (as fast as I should have been to be on that team, and getting faster!) and I think those are the same things that might bring me from where I am now to where I plan to be, which is national-level. So I love beer, but if making it something I rarely consume helps bring me up to that level I'm willing to do it. Honestly I'll do pretty much anything to get a legal, ethical edge. I f*cking love beer though so it'll be one of the last things to go if I do take that route. I drink a hell of a lot less than I did in college though.

cmm268: It was part of a 13.5k circuit I like to run around my apartment. I don't really have the experience (or guts, I guess) to compare uphill and flat intervals in the same run, so I do my reps where I know there's 400m of flat-ish ground in front of me. Works out to pretty variable recovery intervals -- the shortest is ~300m and the longest is a mile. Maybe some more experienced runners can comment on how this effects training.

NJ truth: Aw, you made me blush! Revelation of my despicable recovery cheating above may change your opinion. Goal race is some TBD 10k in the fall, and the goal time is as fast as I can go without dying. Went 34.20 last month, and I'm due for another heat check on Sunday.

Looks like the most competitive race in my city around that time is the 10k associated with the local marathon, but that happens on August 24, when we've still got at least a month of good outdoor training weather at our disposal here in the Great White North. If anyone has any suggestions for a fun race on a flat-ish course with some good competition (I'm of the opinion that you can get the most out of yourself when tested against a strength greater than you own -- e.g., my 34:20 in April was a podunk race I won in a walkover, or runover I suppose, and I'm not sure I wouldn't have gone faster trying to catch someone in front of me)in northwest North America, I am all ears.

Feather wrote:

Overall goal at the moment is to make the 2016 trials and reassess from there.

I'm not sure when the qualifying window opens up for the 2016 trials, but I'd say you have a pretty good shot at the half standard without changing too much of your current training.

printer - Good to see your legs are coming back!

grizz - I've got a couple of sessions I'd like to nail before the half (one being a 5k this weekend, another being a solo 10k time trial in 2 weeks). Other than that, as long as I can stay healthy over the next 4.5 weeks, I'll be happy.

cyhawk - Good for you for addressing your weaknesses! I'm one to only run to my strengths and never really address the weaknesses. Having more speed WILL help you out down the road!

Steven J - Practice makes perfect with the beer mile!