The Ryan Hall Story Really Pulls at My Heart

Crying Man wrote:

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Guys, next time you're running a 5k and in 2nd or 3rd...please...slow down. If you're thinking of pushing the pace, don't. In fact, tell your friends around you, "This is for America guys! We don't want the people in 5th, 6th or 7th getting any help and catching that guy up there leading." It's the most self-less thing you could do.

It's really a great running story about team work, and overcoming obstacles. Just run slower and listen to the best runner in the group when he tells you to relax and let someone else win. Why on Earth would you think about pushing the pace and helping everyone else in the field?

_________________

Not really sure what you're trying to say.....

It's obvious what Conspiracy is trying to say- and I agree with him.

ttc wrote:

[quote]Crying Man wrote:

[quote]ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Guys, next time you're running a 5k and in 2nd or 3rd...please...slow down. If you're thinking of pushing the pace, don't. In fact, tell your friends around you, "This is for America guys! We don't want the people in 5th, 6th or 7th getting any help and catching that guy up there leading." It's the most self-less thing you could do.

It's really a great running story about team work, and overcoming obstacles. Just run slower and listen to the best runner in the group when he tells you to relax and let someone else win. Why on Earth would you think about pushing the pace and helping everyone else in the field?

The Africans could have just ran faster.... What am I missing here? The only reason the purported Hall strategy worked is because a) the Africans allowed and b) they thought they could catch Meb irrespective of the Hall set pace.

SupremeLeader wrote:

The Africans could have just ran faster.... What am I missing here? The only reason the purported Hall strategy worked is because a) the Africans allowed and b) they thought they could catch Meb irrespective of the Hall set pace.

or

c) a bunch of 2:04-2:05 Africans let Meb "run away" from them at 2:10-2:11 (remember he ran 2:08 but negative split) pace because BAA specifically told their agents that their appearance fees hinged on them gifting the race to an American to make the story work.

As a matter of fact I have. Me and my teammate were the top two on our team and we were in an xc race against a sub 9 guy. He broke away early, and we decided to intentionally keep the race for second slow so our teammates could stay in it as long as possible. at the end, we let one of our slower teammates take second (which made his season), we took third and fourth, and everybody had a good day.

The Americans put country above self at Boston. That's a great thing to do, and while there might have been some awareness on Halls part that if the other Americans started pushing he would get dropped, that doesn't diminish the fact that he actively used what was left of his race to try to assist an American victory.

Probably the same idiot that was telling the Women's winner to not bring the Kenyan flag to the finish line to spoil the American atmosphere.

aslan wrote:

The Americans put country above self at Boston. That's a great thing to do, and while there might have been some awareness on Halls part that if the other Americans started pushing he would get dropped, that doesn't diminish the fact that he actively used what was left of his race to try to assist an American victory.

Yea...because believing it's a conspiracy is crazy....

Yet believing runners in a non-team event placed country above self and PR in one of the biggest marathons on the planet is believable.

Team races trying to second place scoring vs. the Boston Marathon.

So now there is a conspiracy theory that the BAA was going to withhold appearance fees? You'll have to bring more to the table than just some ridiculous theory (notwithstanding your self-professed handle).

In the end, the Africans just misjudged the race. The allowed Hall and other Americans to set a slower pace and thought Meb would either continue @ 2:10 pace or collapse. They were wrong and Meb won fair and square. Boom. Game over.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Yet believing runners in a non-team event placed country above self and PR in one of the biggest marathons on the planet is believable.

Team races trying to second place scoring vs. the Boston Marathon.

Do you remember the Olympic 10k in 2004? Bekele kept slowing down the pace so Geb wouldn't get dropped - trying for the Ethiopian sweep.

SupremeLeader wrote:

So now there is a conspiracy theory that the BAA was going to withhold appearance fees? You'll have to bring more to the table than just some ridiculous theory (notwithstanding your self-professed handle).

In the end, the Africans just misjudged the race. The allowed Hall and other Americans to set a slower pace and thought Meb would either continue @ 2:10 pace or collapse. They were wrong and Meb won fair and square. Boom. Game over.

Here's why it's highly doubtful the race wasn't fixed:

1) All foreign men have awful races, handful of 2:04-2:05 guys...all seemingly suck on the same day. Foreign women set the course record and American Men are PR'ing left and right...but foreign men coincidentally all stink it up. Every one of them. Despite perfect conditions.

2) Meb "runs away" from the field at 2:10-2:11 pace, no one goes with him because they'll "reel him in later" in theory. Yet he wasn't "taking off", the pace was pedestrian. But not a single elite foreign men's runner decided to go with him because they figured they'd run faster later? God the destruction a few km's at 2:10-2:11 pace would do to their chances...how would these 2:04-2:05 guys survive in pristine racing conditions? Even supposing they were worried about that being "too fast" not a single one takes a chance risking dying late to go with the leaders?...despite Africans being notorious front runners?

3) When they start reeling Meb in...they just "run out of room" despite a very slow opening they "die" and he wins by 11s.

4) Ryan Hall supposedly tells the American Men "hold back guys, don't pick up the pace, let Meb win" and all the American runners agree that they should sacrifice potential PR's or even trying to surge for better position because they want a different person to win. Those self-less amazing guys, doing it for America! Cause elite runners love slowing down to let others win in the biggest marathons on the planet. And if they did slow down, other runners support it because they did it for Meb. And that somehow kept the Africans from surging? Because they were all key'ing on these lower tier elite American runners.

5) The women's winner from Kenya sets the course record and she tries to bring her Kenyan flag to the finish line and she's told by race coordinators "no, no, don't do that". Don't want to ruin the all-American moment.

The story is too perfect that an almost 39 year old in sketchers wins the race because his fellow countrymen agree to not pick up the pace and every single elite runner decides that 2:10-2:11 pace is too fast early on in near pristine racing conditions.

As long as we're giving out high-fives for helping Meb by NOT helping the Kenyans, I would like some acknowledgement as I did literally nothing to advance their cause on Monday as I watched from my computer.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Guys, next time you're running a 5k and in 2nd or 3rd...please...slow down. If you're thinking of pushing the pace, don't. In fact, tell your friends around you, "This is for America guys! We don't want the people in 5th, 6th or 7th getting any help and catching that guy up there leading." It's the most self-less thing you could do.

It's really a great running story about team work, and overcoming obstacles. Just run slower and listen to the best runner in the group when he tells you to relax and let someone else win. Why on Earth would you think about pushing the pace and helping everyone else in the field?

You left out a few details:

Your hypothetical 5K has not had a full week's worth the media attention, even by non-running sources.

Your 5K isn't televised nationally.

Your 5K wasn't the subject of a terrorist bombing the year before.

Your 5K doesn't have a century's worth the tradition and history as the grand-daddy of them all.

Your 5K hasn't had a male or female American winner in 28 years.

I am an official in the chute system. As Hall was coming through the finish area, he kept asking, "Who won, who won?" Nobody was answering (the medical people probably didn't know). I went up to Hall and said simply "Meb won".

He flashed a huge smile and started pumping his arm. I thought at the time that it was one of the classiest things I've seen in my 40+ years in the sport.

Put down the Haterade.

SupremeLeader wrote:

So now there is a conspiracy theory that the BAA was going to withhold appearance fees? You'll have to bring more to the table than just some ridiculous theory (notwithstanding your self-professed handle).

In the end, the Africans just misjudged the race. The allowed Hall and other Americans to set a slower pace and thought Meb would either continue @ 2:10 pace or collapse. They were wrong and Meb won fair and square. Boom. Game over.

Seriously, that's your argument? Call something ridiculous and "poof" as if by magic it becomes ridiculous?

Sorry, but you're going to have to bring a whole lot more to the table than that.

Perhaps they were keying of Ryan Hall early, who supposedly was the biggest American threat. What has Meb done recently, before Boston? Nothing to be scared of for 2:04-2:05 guys. In a perfectly paced race, a 2:04 guy is going to run 2:06 at Boston. Add more time for starting off slow and they didn't all "suck," the just ran an over-confident, slow first half. It didn't become clear Ryan was a non-factor till after midway.

See previous response.

Chebet went 15:29 from 25-30k, which includes the Newton hills, then 14:57 from 30-35k over the tail end of the Newton hills AND Heartbreak hill, then 14:29 from 35-40k, where he ended up a mere 8 seconds back from Meb. So a 2:05:27 guy runs 2:06 pace from 25-40k on the hills of the Boston Marathon and you have a hard time believing he ran out of gas? You're an idiot.

Nick Arciniaga knows he won't beat Wilson Chebet. He knows he has nothing to gain position-wise from pushing the pace. He wants an American to win. What is so hard about believing he's content to coast on a bunch of Africans while they do the work for him? Or any of the other Americans?

As for your second point of the paragraph, the Africans were keying off each other by mid-race, not Nick or Hartmann. See the accounts of them throwing little surges, testing each other, seeing who would move first. A 2:05 guy might be confident enough to think running down Meb wouldn't be a big deal over the last 17k. However, Chebet clearly made a mistake in pacing and over-did it over the hills.

Irrelevant.

It's much more believable than your quack theory. Now please shut up.

No. For it to be a fix, the antagonists (aka Africans) have to be in on it. Further, it's probably hard to comprehend for everyone here, but if you've ever been overmatched in a race, and the favorites are just cruising, allowing you to stay in contact, and the pace is still near your PR, keeping the status quo sounds like a pretty good idea. The longer you stay with the favorites, the better chance you have to finish in a better position.

Marathon Man 23 wrote:

He told them to slow up mid-race. That is a tactical decision: not a decision to run slow.

Regardless of if they were paid to do it, that's a fix.

My statement isn't what makes the conspiracy theory ridiculous. The total lack of evidence is what makes the conspiracy ridiculous.

What's on Your Table wrote:

SupremeLeader wrote:

So now there is a conspiracy theory that the BAA was going to withhold appearance fees? You'll have to bring more to the table than just some ridiculous theory (notwithstanding your self-professed handle).

In the end, the Africans just misjudged the race. The allowed Hall and other Americans to set a slower pace and thought Meb would either continue @ 2:10 pace or collapse. They were wrong and Meb won fair and square. Boom. Game over.

Seriously, that's your argument? Call something ridiculous and "poof" as if by magic it becomes ridiculous?

Sorry, but you're going to have to bring a whole lot more to the table than that.

Why would hall want an american to win? Does he hate Africans? Aren't they all children of god?