Did Geb explain why he was so useless at London 2014?

rekrunner wrote:

Blame Geb for not fulfilling his contract, but don't blame him for the bad times.

Um...

Wtfunny wrote:

You forgot the part where Geb bailed halfway thru the distance he was supposed to run.

did I forget that? or did I mention on page 1 that the problem arose when Haile dropped at 15k? did you explain why your posts in this thread have been so useless or why you apparently only read halfway through?

good point wrote:

How hard would it be to give all of the pacers a Garmin or similar watch, set up to sound if the pace +/- 5 seconds off of planned? Easy.

A garmin isn't nearly that accurate. The Rotterdam Marathon has markings in the initial 100/200/400 meters or something like that, but I'm not sure how much that really matters. The beginning of a marathon is so easy I just can't see a couple seconds here and there mattering, km marks should be plenty.

Think it through. There was no "Geb debacle".You can blame him for dropping out early at 15K, but his pacing while he was in did not negatively impact the lead pack.

good point wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Blame Geb for not fulfilling his contract, but don't blame him for the bad times.

Um...

Sorry.

I don't take direction well from anonymous posters. I will give you exactly what I want to give you.

Ironically, you made a post explaining, "in retrospect..." right after you told me how to respond on here....odd...

Black kettles, glass houses and all that is good about free flowing thought and conversation.

Nevertheless, your Ethiopian conspiracy theory falls short. To make a more complete case, you'd have to first make a better case that Geb's pacing (and BTW, the two KENYAN pacemakers -- were they in on it?) was erratic. Such a case should quantify and account for the measurable effects of wind and gravity. If all of a sudden 17 seconds becomes 9-11 seconds with a tailwind, hardly seems like a strong case for a "debacle". Seems like you actually made a better case against your own theory, by saying the cream of the crop, heck even 3:00 marathon amateurs, can tell when the pace is too hot. Given the whole pack stayed with Geb until he left, do you want to argue that no one in the lead pack thought the pace was too hot?I don't think you need to know my name to understand that you could make a better case by being able to explain more facts.I sometimes use phrases like "in retrospect" because posters like "Not Skuj" used it first. There was a kind of intented irony (if that's the right word), but it has nothing to do with you. I wanted to be clear, if by "useless" he means "erratic pace" and "dropped out early", I only present arguments about the pacing, accepting that "dropping out early" alone might qualify as "useless".

Athleticsillustrated wrote:

Sorry.

I don't take direction well from anonymous posters. I will give you exactly what I want to give you.

Ironically, you made a post explaining, "in retrospect..." right after you told me how to respond on here....odd...

Black kettles, glass houses and all that is good about free flowing thought and conversation.

Another Option wrote:

If they really want a particular pace, the could do away with pretense and simply use a GPS radio controlled vehicle with the image of the runner of their choice. Better yet, do away with pacing and let them race!

If dog races can use a mechanic rabbit, why can't human races also use a mechanical rabbit?

rekrunner wrote:

...your Ethiopian conspiracy theory falls short.

As you say, it's a "theory" he's put out there, get over it and accept it or don't accept it for what it is. Maybe the truth will out sometime soon.

Garmins and controlled electrical shocks should eradicate this problem.

HardLoper wrote:

did I forget that? or did I mention on page 1 that the problem arose when Haile dropped at 15k? did you explain why your posts in this thread have been so useless or why you apparently only read halfway through?[/quote]

From the guy who questions that Geb knows the course? Or that his incredible running career might not have him as the most experienced of the guys pacing the race?

No, you didn't mention Haile dropped out at 15k .. you said the problem started once Haile dropped out .. neglecting to mention, at all, the fact that Haile BARELY hit halfway of his designated run.

The pacing was erratic; it's a pacer's job to try to maintain a steady pace .. His first 5km was WAY off the correct pace .. the downhill didn't suddenly appear once they started running. And that mightn't reflect so poorly on Geb if that first 5km was only 1/6th of what he ran .. as it was supposed to be .. instead it was 1/3rd of what he ran ... then he slowed down too much.

If Geb paced things so well, why do you suppose he was done at 15km? This from a guy who just came 3rd in the Bupa Half?

I was running the race yesterday, not at the leaders' speed, but close enough to get the same weather conditions. The first 3 miles were indeed quite easy, due to the combination of the downhill and tailwind. In miles 3-12 there was certainly a headwind, though I would not describe it as stiff. Where I was, the pack was still relatively crowded at that point, and I certainly noticed that when I moved away from the main stream of runners to get more open road, I could feel that I was more exposed to the breeze. Miles 20-26 head in the same direction, but the wind seemed less noticeably by that point. Perhaps because I wasn't paying attention by that point. But also perhaps because there's more shelter from tall buildings in the second half of the race.

I am too busy to go and read through the thread where people were reporting what was going on during the race, but if I remember correctly Haile was gapping everyone early. When was he with Kenyan pacemakers, early on or later when he started to fade a bit?

I don't remember him gapping anyone.

Perhaps I got it wrong. Perhaps Haile was trying to hang with Kiptoo, yes?

See this from Rojo around page 6 of the thread:

Rojo wrote:

Any conspiracy theorists out there?? Seriously. Nike/Alberto pay them off. There was supposed to be a 30 seconde gap at 13.1 miles. There's nearly 30 seconds at 5k.

5K10K15K20KHALF25K30K35K40KFINISH

Pos. Name Club Runner no Category Pred. Finish Pred. Daytime Diff Time

1 Kiptoo, Edwin (KEN) P Pacemaker 52 18-39 02:01:04 12:01:04 +00:00 00:14:21

2 Gebrselassie, Haile (ETH) P Pacemaker 51 40-44 02:01:04 12:01:04 +00:00 00:14:21

3 Sigei, Richard (KEN) P Pacemaker 53 18-39 02:01:04 12:01:05 +00:00 00:14:21

4 Abshero, Ayele (ETH) 5 18-39 02:01:06 12:01:06 +00:00 00:14:21

5 Kipsang, Wilson (KEN) 2 18-39 02:01:07 12:01:07 +00:01 00:14:22

6 Mekonnen, Tsegaye (ETH) 6 18-39 02:01:08 12:01:09 +00:01 00:14:22

ljalfjajffj wrote:I just read the awful commentary by the letsrun office idiots.

The first 5k wasn't too fast, it drops 40m not 30 as they claim and that is worth about 13 seconds. They claim (according to JK's wrong formulae) that a 30m drop is worth 6 seconds, when it is actuall worth 10. Go out and try it sometime guys

where are you getting 13s from ?

it certainly isn't easy to accurately calculate what a downhill is worth, but i'm pretty sure letsrun's 6s estimate is much closer to mark than your 13s

Also, the mile markers in London are not accurate, so the first mile split of 4.36 is not reliable.

eh ?

regardless of reliable, they have the opening mile of all previous runnings & said that 4'36 was 2nd fastest ever behind a 4'35 from before - not stated which year

as long as the mile marker was in same place in all previous runnings than we can compare a distance of ~ 1760y for all runnings even if it is a few m out from a true mile, as long as same marker used every year

wtfunny wrote:

The pacing was erratic; it's a pacer's job to try to maintain a steady pace .. His first 5km was WAY off the correct pace .. the downhill didn't suddenly appear once they started running. And that mightn't reflect so poorly on Geb if that first 5km was only 1/6th of what he ran .. as it was supposed to be .. instead it was 1/3rd of what he ran ... then he slowed down too much.

If Geb paced things so well, why do you suppose he was done at 15km? This from a guy who just came 3rd in the Bupa Half?

It has been discussed to death that the pacing was not erratic. It was exactly what you would expect based on past years, the course profile, and the wind, which is research the Brojos and others usually overlook before marathons.

Sorry Haile didn't perform up the expectations of your ideal world where everyone always runs perfectly based on what they ran another day 5 months ago. But that's what they had 2 other pacers for, so it had ZERO outcome on the results.

I'm still absolutely amazed that some in this thread are arguing that Geb did a fine job. Unfknbelieveable. I love the guy, but he fkd up. He did nothing remotely close to the pre race plan. Not pace wise, not distance wise. How the fk can we even be arguing about this?

The first 3 runners listed, Abshero, Kipsang and Mekonnen, are listed as being 0:00, 0:01 and 0:01 secs behind the leader. That's not gapping anyone.

Athleticsillustrated wrote:

Perhaps I got it wrong. Perhaps Haile was trying to hang with Kiptoo, yes?

See this from Rojo around page 6 of the thread:

Rojo wrote:

Any conspiracy theorists out there?? Seriously. Nike/Alberto pay them off. There was supposed to be a 30 seconde gap at 13.1 miles. There's nearly 30 seconds at 5k.

5K10K15K20KHALF25K30K35K40KFINISH

Pos. Name Club Runner no Category Pred. Finish Pred. Daytime Diff Time

1 Kiptoo, Edwin (KEN) P Pacemaker 52 18-39 02:01:04 12:01:04 +00:00 00:14:21

2 Gebrselassie, Haile (ETH) P Pacemaker 51 40-44 02:01:04 12:01:04 +00:00 00:14:21

3 Sigei, Richard (KEN) P Pacemaker 53 18-39 02:01:04 12:01:05 +00:00 00:14:21

4 Abshero, Ayele (ETH) 5 18-39 02:01:06 12:01:06 +00:00 00:14:21

5 Kipsang, Wilson (KEN) 2 18-39 02:01:07 12:01:07 +00:01 00:14:22

6 Mekonnen, Tsegaye (ETH) 6 18-39 02:01:08 12:01:09 +00:01 00:14:22

wtfunny wrote:

The first 3 runners listed, Abshero, Kipsang and Mekonnen, are listed as being 0:00, 0:01 and 0:01 secs behind the leader. That's not gapping anyone.

The gap to the second group was 30 seconds. You're struggling.