Bekele vs Farah in London Marathon: who you got and in what time?

yeah they are wrote:

frogwoman wrote:

12:53 & 26:43 aren't really slow.

And they aren't really fast

for the umpteenth time

those runs were 2y ago & he is likely now much better than then

his 12'53 had an appalling 4th km of 2'38/2'39 & he kicked in a 60/53-flat !!!

that was worth ~ 12'45 at even pace

his 26'46 had a coupla jogging laps of 67 or 68 early on, when 64s were required

he threw away 5 or 6s just there before even considering rest of race uneveness - had a 55s finish so still plenty in the tank at the bell

think more like 26'35 that day

& like i said, he's a better 5k/10k runner than then

RunWild wrote:Because Kenny B is no longer training for a flat out 10k, especially if he is going to move up in distance

but he was last 2y & didn't look any better than 26'50 which isn't great - remember what 10k sammy brought to table when moving up

Speaking of Kipchoge, I don't know about this year with marathon specific training, but last year, it was clear he was training for the 10k as his 5k was 12:55 and his half was 59:20

i woud say at worst 26'40 as he went 26'49 off 5k training in '07

26'40 coudn't let him crack 2"04

Don't forget that Bekele still did manage to run down Mo, judging by his 1:00 HM and his 3:29 1500 were great indicators that he had a 26 mid-high 10k in him

it was a 3'28

kennster's 60+ in no way indicates he was in mid-26 shape

he got dropped towards the end but miraculously got back

people keep forgetting the course record is 58'56 by mathathi

Nope nope nope wrote:The half marathon world record was set in a race with no pacers as were Wanjiru's world records. I don't know if the splits were even but there were no rabbits

i'm pretty sure the zedster had pacers in his wrs ( lisbon is known record-chasing course - you don't go there without pacers )

i don't believe sammy did

Bubbadeboo wrote:Anyways, as Stephen Kiprotich has shown, you don't have to be the fastest racer in the world to be the best as long as you're a savvy racer with a strong zigzag

his 2 titles don't make him best in the world

in london he didn't run against geoff mutai/makau/dennis/kebede albeit he did beat wilson/kirui who ran dumb races ( latter following former )

it's hard to believe wilson ran 2"09 on a flat course, albeit humid day

in moscow, he ran against no kenyans anyone ever heard of

his real test will be new york

toughest major course ( albeit it won't be too hot which does him no favours over the opposition - he runs well in heat ), no pacers & up against the guy who i reckon is best M'er of all time - geoff mutai

he beats a now reasonably fit geoff ( albeit i doubt he will ever be as good as new york '11 ever again ), then he will be indisputably best M guy on planet

ventolin^3 wrote:he's trained for the M from the getgo & as far as i'm aware hasn't run a track race ever

edit

iaaf says dennis has 1 recorded track race

2011 28:30.0 Nairobi 16 JUL

I ran at the Great North Run that day. There was a crazy tailwind during the middle miles. Just something else to consider...

jsk wrote:

No contest. Between Farah and Bekele? Easily Bekele. Did you see how easily he beat Farah in the half?

I watched that race and I think its not as clear cut as you suggest. Bekele pulled away from Farah on a steepish downhill bit a couple of km (or so) out. In commentary Paula Radcliffe said that she had advised Farah not to push too hard on the down hill for fear of beating up his legs too much. That's presumably why he let Bekele go at that point.

In the close half km or so Farah closed a lot of ground and had there been more space in the finishing tunnel might well have won it.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Bekele, on the day he made the right choices and won the race - good for him. But I don't think that in all the circumstances it really gives use a good guide as to how they might compete in future.

Apart from anything else a marathon is a very different proposition from a half. Neither of them are tested over the longer distance and we simply don't know whether they will prove to be good marathon runners.

Bubbadeboo wrote:

Last 1.1km in ~2:40

~60s last 400m

so they slowed way down at the end? that's not how I remember it.

someone had to do it wrote:

kkx wrote:

No, his 1500m time is better than anything he's run for 5k. He is a 1500m/3k guy.

No

He is a 3k/5k guy

He simply hasn't been in a time trial 5k race in a long time

learn

I prefer to use the evidence rather than hyperbolic assumptions of what he could possibly do. The evidence says his times get relatively worse as distance increases greater than 1500m.

He has only been si successful at 5/10 because all the best endurance talent is in the marathon and all the fast talent is in the 1500.

p^r wrote:

I prefer to use the evidence rather than hyperbolic assumptions of what he could possibly do. The evidence says his times get relatively worse as distance increases greater than 1500m.

He has only been si successful at 5/10 because all the best endurance talent is in the marathon and all the fast talent is in the 1500.

fool

the evidence is that he is the slowest 3'28 guy in history

he would run about 50 flat for 400m, possibly a tenth or so under

to run 3'28 off of that indicates massive endurance

he was capable of 12'40 / 26'30 last season

something renato canova said he agrees with -

"Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m."

learn

What is wrong with you? Why did you keep preaching your opinions as fact? Guess what pal, not everybody thinks the same way as you!! You may be right, you may be wrong, but not everybody has to have the same opinion as you.

I know, I know, your mind=blown

Relax, holy hell you are one uptight, frustrated person.

Stop guessing what he could or couldn't run for 400m or 5k or 10k and look at the actual times he has run during the last 10 years. He is a 1500m runner with good endurance.

ventolin^3 wrote:

& like i said, he's a better 5k/10k runner than then

Ventolin, there is no evidence for this. Absolutely none. You are literally just making this up and saying it. His performances were worse this year than before:

He got easily out kicked in a 13min+ race at Pre and his last lap was only like a 54 or 55.

He dodged Bekele in the 10000m when Bekele requested a fast pace.

He couldn't out kick Bekele in a 60+ half marathon race with a 59 second final 400m.

Rupp's endurance was worse this year and combined with great 1500m performance indicates that the whole camp may have been focused on speed this year and not endurance.

These are things that actually happened. Nothing he did this year shows that he is anywhere close to being a 26:30 10k guy this year.

You should watch that race again. It's clear that Bekele let Farah catch up to him and then switched to another gear in the final 50m easily.

I would agree with the conclusion that Mo is a 1500, 3K guy. Yes, he can extend this to 5K and 10K, but he is better suited for the shorter races based upon his finishing speed. So why run a marathon? It can only be for the money. There is money in marathons, not in the 1500, 3000 or even in the 5K. He has a great finish, but that is not usually what counts in the marathon. I would be on Bekele over Mo in the marathon, due to his better ability to front run for longer, which he would need to do after the pacers drop , but I doubt that either will go under 2:04. For that you need teamwork. Where is Mo´s team? Will Rupp be his pacesetter? Bekele has his brother, and has used him in the past effectively,but he needs more than this. To go substantially under 2:04, you need a team approach for as long as possible. Pacesetters are good for the early miles, but you need someone to help you from 20K through 32K....drafting is the key! Whoever thinks this is an individual effort is wrong. Tadese is a great example of this. -just one man´s opinion.

p^r wrote:Stop guessing what he could or couldn't run for 400m or 5k or 10k and look at the actual times he has run during the last 10 years

eh ???

what does this finish indicate for his 400 speed :

He is a 1500m runner with good endurance

no he isn't

he has at best high-49 speed which is NOT elite 1500 speed

those guys have anywhere between 47-flat to mid-48 speed

( those running today - some of the greats of the past like coe ( an 800 runner who ran 1500 ) had high-45, noah a likely 46-flat/low-46 & Ryun the GOAT probably 45-flat ( !!! ) )

mo is 3k/5k guy who can run extremely well at immediate distances either side, but his hitting zone is

3k

There's more to evidence than explicit times. A sit-and-kick, obviously not maxed out 5k shows a bit more was available.

no

he joined sal late-'10/early-'11 & sal had him working on core strength & consistent high mileage

within week/months he'd gone 26'46 & later 12'53

he had 2 more solid years of injury-free training since then ( only 1 short bout of gastroenteritis this year ( see later ) to cause some upset )

read it : 2 solid years of training to build on 12'53/26'46 & we have a 3'28 as evidence of what that training has done ( albeit at the "wrong" event )

you think he couda run 3'28 in early '11 ???

when ill with gastroenteritis

he was so ill that in lead-up, rupp his room-mate, stated he had to carry him to the bathroom to chuck-up

he was due to run in eugene meet & never shoud have in that condition but it was his "home" meet & he felt obligated to do so

mo was due to run that 10k but his illness meant he was in no shape for a fast 10k ( which kennster won but it was not fast - mo shouda stuck with it ) & opted for the 5k where he likely expected slow race with a fast finish

he was nowhere near top-shape that day

do you think he was capable of 3'28 that day ???

1/2 M is far above his ideal distance ( albeit his rapid speed decay indicates nothing better than mid-59 for him - they couda run that if it hadn't been tactical ) & the only reason he got outkicked was that kennster kept pushing to the side not allowing mo room to pass him in the funnel

nonsense

rupp ran 7'30i which is closely enough to 5k to indicate he was in great 5k shape if he'd been asked to run one that day

i'm sure we'll hear about some low-grade chronic injury rupp had between indoors/outdoors

eh ?

how on earth do you think a 5k/10k guy ran 3'28 unless he had some damn incredible endurance to hold onto his non-elite ( asbel has run low-48 on a dirt track ) basic 400 speed ???

btchti wrote:There's more to evidence than explicit times. A sit-and-kick, obviously not maxed out 5k shows a bit more was available.

tell that to some of the guys around here

- his 12'53 had a drivellous 4th km of 2'38/2'39 ( 13'10/13'15 pace ) & he kicked a 53-flat !!!

only a fool woud believe 12'53 was his limit that day

try more like 12'45 that day at even-pace

- his 26'46 had some jogging early laps of 68, when 64 was required

he threw away 4 or 5s just there without even flattening-out all the laps

try more like 26'35/26'37.5 that day at even pace