The only defining marker of an "actual" American is their citizenship. That's the whole point of the United States.
fair point - it doesn’t help Lagat’s 3:27, nonetheless. He was competing for Kenya at the time. I don’t understand why USATF want to ratify in those circumstances (though then again, this is a federation that pushed through 10.49….)
Yeah, I dunno either. This entire argument seems pretty clear cut Rai Benjamin represented Antigua and Barbuda as a New-York raised American Citizen. Joseph Fahnbulleh is from Michigan and went to college in Florida. Seems like it's just a case of technicalities with rules and stuff.
In any case, any organization that has a guy like Max Siegel in charge probably isn't the brightest anyway.
Can see Nuguse running under 3.26 in the next year. He will beat the dopers from Europe and restore normal order to the world - American dominance in all events. The only events where Americans are not the best are ones dominated by foreign dopers. Kessler will join him soon after as the two top 1500m runners in the world. Hopefully the Norwegians and Spaniards will be caught soon.
The only defining marker of an "actual" American is their citizenship. That's the whole point of the United States.
The USATF told Lagat to run for Kenya even though he had already become a U.S. citizen. The reason: It would take them months to process the paperwork. The new rule now is, once citizenship is granted by a government an athlete can officially set records for a country. Paperwork delays notwithstanding.
So because usatf is inept and can't get paperwork done in time for one of USA's newest and biggest stars, the record shouldn't count? Is that what people are arguing? He only ran for Kenya because usatf wouldn't let an actual citizen run for the US. Not his choice.
Great to see the US 1500 record by an ACTUAL American and not one that changed nationality (especially having represented the other nation for years).
Can the four people who downvoted this guy's comment explain why? Lagat's story is the epitome of what is wrong with this system. Someone who is not an American should not be allowed to set American records. Since Lagat was racing for Kenya after the result in question, I don't see how this is up for debate.
Can the downvoters explain their thinking?
So, there is an American Record... which happens to be slower than the fastest time run by an US citizen. That's what we have now. I guess that's what most people in thread want, but it's definitely worthwhile to point out the situation where the American Record is slower than the fastest time run by any US citizen.
I downvoted it because Lagat is most definitely not “the epitome of what’s wrong with the system” but one of it not the greatest American distance runners ever.
His 3:27.40 should not be the American record, though. We agree on that.
Oh, sorry! I didn't mean Lagat was the problem. I meant the way USATF handled it was the epitome of the FUBAR way they do things. Lagat is a Kenyan who became a US citizen. I have no problem with that. My complaint was that USATF counted times he ran before he was running for the USA as the best US times. That is just idiotic (not Lagat). Lagat is not the problem, USATF is.
Wayne from Winnetka wrote: Nuguse ran the North American Area Record "AR"
Ran a continental = AR = NACAC area in this case = North, Central American and Caribbean record. "North American" only speaking and writing in short.
Also calling US record as AR is really stupid and only creates confusion. The whole world agreed on NR.
These are the rules, you like or not. You can also make your separate North American lists for the US and Canada only, but sorry, what for? Because Bolt, Shaunae Miller-Uibo and others are laughing.
I don't think people were saying that... we were saying that something can't be the Area Record without automatically being faster than all the national records in that Area, by definition.
How can Nuguse have the NACAC/AR without having the US record? That is how idiotic and moronic USATF is when they give Lagat, running for Kenya, the US record. How could a national record be faster than the AR where that nation is located?
It would be like a German having the European record but not the German record. So dumb.
The USATF told Lagat to run for Kenya even though he had already become a U.S. citizen. The reason: It would take them months to process the paperwork. The new rule now is, once citizenship is granted by a government an athlete can officially set records for a country. Paperwork delays notwithstanding.
So because usatf is inept and can't get paperwork done in time for one of USA's newest and biggest stars, the record shouldn't count? Is that what people are arguing? He only ran for Kenya because usatf wouldn't let an actual citizen run for the US. Not his choice.
It has to do with something akin to a "transfer portal" in sport. We don't want people jumping to a new team right before the championships. So there are rules about when and how you can switch teams.
Most people like those rules because without them, national teams would not be made up of people FROM those nations but instead by people who moved to those nations for athletic or financial gain. We see this all the time when the best Turkish runner is a Kenyan, the best Israeli runner is a Kenyan, the best Saudi runner is a Kenyan, etc.
This isn't the in the spirit of national competitions like the Olympic games. Every agrees with that (unless they think national competitions are jingoistic and bad in first place for promoting nationalism/patriotism).
I downvoted it because Lagat is most definitely not “the epitome of what’s wrong with the system” but one of it not the greatest American distance runners ever.
His 3:27.40 should not be the American record, though. We agree on that.
Oh, sorry! I didn't mean Lagat was the problem. I meant the way USATF handled it was the epitome of the FUBAR way they do things. Lagat is a Kenyan who became a US citizen. I have no problem with that. My complaint was that USATF counted times he ran before he was running for the USA as the best US times. That is just idiotic (not Lagat). Lagat is not the problem, USATF is.
I know that you didn’t mean that, but you seemed aghast that people had downvoted a poster that had trotted out the same tired “Lagat is not a REAL American” drek, so I wanted to help explain why.
Some people in this thread seem to be confusing AR (stands for area record not American record) and NR (national record).
No, we are confused that the National Record is faster than the Area Record. That is, by all logical reasoning, impossible. It would be like setting a World Record without getting the National Record at the same time.
Oh, sorry! I didn't mean Lagat was the problem. I meant the way USATF handled it was the epitome of the FUBAR way they do things. Lagat is a Kenyan who became a US citizen. I have no problem with that. My complaint was that USATF counted times he ran before he was running for the USA as the best US times. That is just idiotic (not Lagat). Lagat is not the problem, USATF is.
I know that you didn’t mean that, but you seemed aghast that people had downvoted a poster that had trotted out the same tired “Lagat is not a REAL American” drek, so I wanted to help explain why.
That's fair. Lagat is 100% a real American. That is not my beef. But he isn't the product of America so we shouldn't brag about him as our "best runner." America didn't have anything to do with his development and successes unless you think his time at WSU is why he was so good.
BTW, the problem that I see is that late career moves like this defeat the purpose of "national records" in many ways. We use those records to see what kind of athletes are produced by certain culture and ethnic populations in specific countries.
The Japanese success at marathoning is interesting because they are Japanese people running those times. If it were 50 Kenyans with Japanese citizenship, which is legal, it would just be less interesting. That isn't "racist" or anything, it is just less likely to pique my interest in what is going on over in Japan, for example.
I know that you didn’t mean that, but you seemed aghast that people had downvoted a poster that had trotted out the same tired “Lagat is not a REAL American” drek, so I wanted to help explain why.
That's fair. Lagat is 100% a real American. That is not my beef. But he isn't the product of America so we shouldn't brag about him as our "best runner." America didn't have anything to do with his development and successes unless you think his time at WSU is why he was so good...
Well, in college he couldn't even beat some chump named Adam Goucher. Then he went from that to 3:26 while training here in the land of the free and home of the brave.
3:27 is understood to be and remains the American Record. Moving the goalposts to retroactively cancel that changes nothing.
Besides which, it's a new condition arbitrarily imported from international champs - where's the sense in requiring that ordinary competition be subject to those special rules? Was Lagat "representing the US" when he ran 3:27? No, he was an American running 3:27 at a regular meet.
It's particularly cynical to apply that rule to him when its purpose is to stop fake representation, athlete-borrowing. That is obviously NOT what Lagat was doing. He is still a US citizen, went on to represent the US at many later champs, and would have then if he were allowed to.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Lagat-haters go home devastated
