Laura MF Muir 3:55

I thought David Walsh from the Sunday Times put it well talking about Ayana's WR:

"We can't accuse because there's no evidence and we can't believe because there's no trust."

That applies to any unusually fast time these days.

upon reflection, this just seems highly, highly improbable to be clean. Of all the women in history to run 3:55 clean, would this strike you as the most natural specimen? Laura Muir? Her times at other distances are very unremarkable and do not correlate at all with this performance. She is about 9 seconds slower at 3k than Simpson and Rowbury, while also running only 2 flat or 2:01 in the 800m. That is the woman who can run 3:55 going away from Faith Kipyegon and Hassan?

Don't you think she can faster than 2:01 in the 800m now? Or PR in the 3000m? She probably doesn't contest in these events as often.

jjjjjj wrote:

upon reflection, this just seems highly, highly improbable to be clean. Of all the women in history to run 3:55 clean, would this strike you as the most natural specimen? Laura Muir? Her times at other distances are very unremarkable and do not correlate at all with this performance. She is about 9 seconds slower at 3k than Simpson and Rowbury, while also running only 2 flat or 2:01 in the 800m. That is the woman who can run 3:55 going away from Faith Kipyegon and Hassan?

I have no opinion as to her cleanliness, but how would poorer under- and over-distance times prove doping? She got hold of the magical 1500 juice that has no effect on shorter or longer races? Or does this argument suggest she started doping in the buildup to the big PR, or took some raceday dope that eluded her (or would have been more likely found) at OG?

Scotland isn't that cold, particularly in the central belt. Glasgow where Muir is based, at university probably gets

Its the muck and the haggis

jjjjjj wrote:

upon reflection, this just seems highly, highly improbable to be clean. Of all the women in history to run 3:55 clean, would this strike you as the most natural specimen? Laura Muir? Her times at other distances are very unremarkable and do not correlate at all with this performance. She is about 9 seconds slower at 3k than Simpson and Rowbury, while also running only 2 flat or 2:01 in the 800m. That is the woman who can run 3:55 going away from Faith Kipyegon and Hassan?

To everyone saying she can run faster than 2-flat for 800m RIGHT NOW, this is nonsense. 2-flat is her limit, just like Jenny and Shannon. She doesn't have the wheels to go faster.

So to explain this 3:55 she would need to be STRONGER than the two Yanks at 3000m, meaning Laura would be approaching Genzebe territory of 8:20-ish, which is just crazy when you try to accept it.

For comparison, Faith has run 1:58, 3:56, 8:23, 14:31. Muir's line just doesn't make sense unless you think she's become insanely strong over the past year.

I'm with jjjjjjj and all the other doubters.

A dude is a dude. wrote:

The Moron Miler wrote:

Sharp deserves a medal as top 3 in the women's 800m in Rio.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Niyonsaba is no dude, muscles or not. Doped, maybe.

Any guy with a T level of 30 is a dude.

Determined from what test and when? Or are you just talking shit.

Niyonsaba is no more a dude than Dafne Schippers or Chanelle Price.

Salesmen, cheats and liars wrote:

... She [muir] runs through the line and while the two behind her clearly are breaking down in the final 50m, Muir continued to drive with lifted knees and powering hips. I would contend, given her finish, that she probably could have continued that form for at least another 50m and quite possibly for another 50 and be damn close to a 4:15 mile.

hehe,

the way you described the finish gave me visions of muir 'chap-running' through the line with victo-edwardian pomp n probity, and an upright 'muscular-christian' imperial bearing, as the 'chap-hop' pumped out.

[chap hop - a style of hip hip hop ole chap, where young people pretend to be pompous imperial edwardians rapping.

from my persepective, the under 35 generation actually are edwardian, with the opinion-formers/ leaders of their generation pumping out their selfrighteous moralising and the earnest false-piousness]

Action Brit wrote:

For comparison, Faith has run 1:58, 3:56, 8:23, 14:31. Muir's line just doesn't make sense unless you think she's become insanely strong over the past year.

I'm with jjjjjjj and all the other doubters.

I understand. Muir must be taking the dope that selectively improves the 1500, but does nothing for the 3000 and especially for the 800. But I don't understand why Muir doesn't use the broader spectrum doping products like what Dibaba, Kipyegon and Hassan supposedly use. Perhaps the veterinary school doesn't carry the really good stuff.

I already posted on this thread about the use of subjective feelings…and how my "feeling" about Genzebe Dibaba changed in 2015 after she switched coaches to Jama Aden and dropped her PR quickly from 3:55 to a new world record 3:50. I thought it was suspicious in 2015. After the raid with 6 vials of 4 different kinds of EPO, 62 used syringes, and 23 syringes preloaded with EPO found at the hotel, I became……..more suspicious.

Paula Radcliffe's Rule: "You only know for sure about yourself" is WRONG.

I know about Ms. Paula Radcliffe. I have objective evidence:

Ms. Paula Radcliffe's 2:15:25 is equivalent (Purdy tables) to a 4:00 mile, 8:00 3K, 13:53 5K, and 29:03 10K. Paula is way beyond Almaz Ayana, Wang Junxia, and the Dibabas. Paula is the best long distance athlete that has ever lived on this planet.

From wiki:

She has previously asked for the results of a blood test taken at the London Marathon to be made public, saying that she had "absolutely no objection to my test being released".[115]

In 2015, in the wake of revelations of widespread doping in athletics,[116] Radcliffe said that, unlike some other prominent British athletes, she would not be releasing her blood-test history, and discouraged other athletes from doing so.[117] She was later indirectly identified as a suspected doper by MP Jesse Norman during a parliamentary inquiry into blood doping.[118][119] In response, Radcliffe issued a statement in which she "categorically denied" cheating in any form and said she has "nothing to hide".[120] Shortly afterwards, her three suspect test results were leaked, though Radcliffe still refused to release her complete blood-test history.[121] In late November 2015, the IAAF declared that the accusation were "based on the gross misinterpretation of incomplete data". The UK Anti Doping Agency, having received Radcliffe's blood test history via the IAAF, stated that "Ukad has come to the same conclusion as the IAAF review that there is no case to answer".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Ross Tucker has Paula as a 7 on his "suspicious" scale.) Here are some OFF scores from blood test results:

Here is the information I used to come to a conclusion on Ms. Radcliffe:

On Oct. 2, 2003…two days before the World Championship Half-Marathon that she won…Paula had a blood test result which had a hemoglobin value of 12.8 g/dL, and a reticulocyte score of 0.59% (of RBCS), which make up an OFF score of 82 pre-race.

On Oct. 4, 2003…Paula had a blood test result which had a hemoglobin value of 15.6 g/dL, and a reticulocyte score of 0.47% (of RBCs), which make up an OFF score of 114.87 post-race.

That is a 21.88% increase in hemoglobin value in 2 days, from 12.8 g/dL to 15.6 g/dL.

To get a rough estimate of hematocrit score (which many people are more familiar with), the hemoglobin score can be multiplied by 3, so the 12.8 Hb would be roughly equivalent to a hematocrit value of 38.4%. A 21.88% increase in hematocrit value in 2 days, from 38.4% to 46.8% is a very large magnitude increase... in a very short amount of time.

Even severe dehydration, which causes a loss of plasma volume, and elevates Hb values, does not increase hemoglobin values more than 15%…even in extreme dehydration after running for 2.5 to 3 hours and losing 4% of bodyweight. Paula ran for 1 hour 7 minutes and also won the race.

Altitude training can increase Hb values by 5 to 10%…and takes 3 weeks to work. All types of EPO take weeks to work. Cobalt chloride takes weeks to work. Inhalation of xenon or krypton gas to increase erythropoiesis also takes weeks to work. Hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF) stabilizers such as FG-4592 also take weeks to work. No other drug or substance that I know of can work in 2 days to increase hemoglobin values by that much.

The only way I know of that can increase hemoglobin values by 21.88% in 2 days is:

1) An autologous blood transfusion by Ms. Paula Radcliffe.

(The reticulocyte score also shows a 20% decrease (from 0.59% of RBCs to 0.47% of RBCs), which is also consistent with a blood transfusion, since the reticulocytes are diluted by the infusion of the old stored blood.)

My conclusion is:

Ms. Paula Radcliffe is a Brit Doper-Cheater-Liarâ„¢. Paula is a 700.

For some more reading on the mechanism of action:

Paula is OFF the charts in every way!!!

Paula has a TIGER in her tank!!!

Oh yea.

Go Paula!!!

The Moron Miler wrote:

Sharp deserves a medal as top 3 in the women's 800m in Rio.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Niyonsaba is no dude, muscles or not. Doped, maybe.

A dude is a dude. wrote:

Any guy with a T level of 30 is a dude.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Determined from what test and when? Or are you just talking shit.

Niyonsaba is no more a dude than Dafne Schippers or Chanelle Price.

You like dudes, and would like to have sex with him.

the reverse of the medal wrote:

I thought David Walsh from the Sunday Times put it well talking about Ayana\'s WR:

\"We can\'t accuse because there\'s no evidence and we can\'t believe because there\'s no trust.\"

Thank you for passing that along. It captures the dilemma we face.

where is the pedigree to do this? It is true that she is only 23. However, she did not figure in European junior top runners. Her 400m pr in early 2014 at age 20 was 55.7 (27.5 200m pr) and this year it improved only slightly to lower 55. So, a 55 second quarter with only an 8:38 3k is 3:55 caliber. Of course, doing whatever she is doing, she should figure to run 8:20s right now. I would say that low 8:20s would be more in line with 3:55 and limited speed at this level.

McMillan Calculator predicts a 2:00 800m with :55 400m, which is what she has run at the two distances. It also predicts 4:08.7 1500m, which is 13 seconds slower than she has run, and 8:51 (also 13 seconds slower).

For 3:55 1500m, it predicts 52 400m, 1:54 800m, 8:22.3 3k, 14:42 5000m.

Algonquin wrote:

Ok, we probably do agree.

One way to go with this is that everyone is dirty.

Another way to go with this is that a lot of people are clean (some people of course are dirty--human nature). For instance, let's assume that Muir is clean. If we can believe Muir is clean, we can believe almost everyone else is clean. If we start from people and performances we know are clean, we can be much more optimistic about how many people are clean. On the Men's side, if Jim Ryun could run 3:51.3 on dirt in 1967 and Ron Clarke could run 13:16 on dirt in 1966, and we pretty much know those performances are clean, then it is not crazy, for instance, to think that Bekele was clean

Just trying to clarify, the Berkeley track (3:51.3) was dirt not cinders, but the Bakersfield track at this time was synthetic. Do we know for certain that the Stockholm track (Clarke) was dirt?

Rio was a strength workout and she injected right after the final.???

The question is what.

Does anybody even know what dope is out there? What methods? Unless somebody blows the doors open wide WADA and the general public will continue to have a minimal understanding of what PEDs are present and trending. But, it's safe to assume that like all other sports that push competitors to the edge, when others see performances blowing minds, they send someone out to find it. "I'll have what she's having."

They all went to Font Romeu for a training camp at 6000 feet. It is close to Andorra and Spain.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14594929.Living_the_high_life__Laura_Muir_embarks_on_pre_Rio_altitude_training_camp/

Andorra is where many cyclists live/lived, and up to 30 nailed for EPO.

Spain was where Jama booked a bunch of rooms for a training camp where EPO preloaded syringes were found.

No, the point is that she had shown no indicator of anything close to this 1500m ability before--what she'd shown was something maybe accordant with Simpson/Rowbury level talent but not yet that level of performance either at 1500 or 3k.