The Ryan Hall Story Really Pulls at My Heart

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

dkny64 wrote:

Dude, seriously, what's with all the negativity? How about you post about something running related that makes you happy? And if nothing running related makes you happy, maybe it's time to stop hanging out on the letsrun board.

It's not negativity, it's reality. Come join me when you're ready. What runner agrees to not push the pace in the biggest race of the year so that someone else could win? WHHHAAATTTT?

This is Let's Run....not Let's let other people win cause it feels good.

I'm a happy dude, I just ate lunch, it was soooo goood.

But I'm also not going to suspend all disbelief just so the right story can be told for the BAA and Boston. It smells like a crock of cooked up malarkey.

Get over yourself and come over to reality. You can question whether it helped or not, but you can't question that it happened. It was corroborated by all. You are tiring dude.

Marathon Man 23 wrote:

Get over yourself and come over to reality. You can question whether it helped or not, but you can't question that it happened. It was corroborated by all. You are tiring dude.

I didn't question if it happened.

It did.

I'm questioning why a group of runners don't find it absolutely incredulous that Ryan Hall is telling all the other Americans "hey slow up" mid-race.

And the only explanation seems to be "well because he wanted Meb to win!" As if that's an okay reason to tell other guys trying to PR "dude, don't push the pace" IN A RACE!!!!

And instead we're fed a story that it was self-less and the right thing to do....rather than sitting back and saying wait...what just happened? What did Hall say? What the heck?

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Crying Man wrote:

Yeah, pretty sure that I have run a race or two.

Perhaps it defies every single idea that YOU have about running. It is not at all clear to me that you are in a position to speak for everyone else. But, heck, what do I know?

Still, if you are going to claim to speak for everyone perhaps you could provide your qualifications. How did you become certified as the official mouthpiece of every single runner? Are there others who hold such an exalted position? Where does one go to sign up for this remarkable position of authority?

How many of those races have you been able to push the pace and backed off so you could let someone else win?

Four times that I can think of off the top of my head.

Once I let my son win when he was an all-county XC in HS (but I could still beat him). I let him get the win in a road race.

Twice I let teammates win XC races - once in HS, once in college.

Once I let a neighbor win a road race. He was a good guy and the only black fellow in town. I thought it would be good for the town to see a black guy win.

Now, how about answering my questions?

Ok- This is beyond enough guys.

#1- Why would you doubt that this happened? There are MULTIPLE guys who mentioned it. Why would they lie about it?

#2- Hall didn't mention it at all until he was asked about it, and then posted about it later. He didn't prompt it, so stop bashing him for it.

#3- Has is occurred to any of you that maybe by talking the guys OUT of passing the Africans, it not only helped Meb win, but ALSO helped get them to their great performances? If all those American guys backed off just a bit to stay behind the Africans when they slowed down ended up with such great performances, something tells me that maybe they had a little bit left more left in the last few miles than they may have otherwise. If they'd pushed ahead of the Africans, they may have blown up a bit and not finished quite as well.

Just stop. Everyone stop. Be happy with how everything turned out (Meb Win, all the great American performances) and STOP BEING SUCH NEGATIVE JERKS!

Crying Man wrote:

Four times that I can think of off the top of my head.

Once I let my son win when he was an all-county XC in HS (but I could still beat him). I let him get the win in a road race.

Twice I let teammates win XC races - once in HS, once in college.

Once I let a neighbor win a road race. He was a good guy and the only black fellow in town. I thought it would be good for the town to see a black guy win.

Now, how about answering my questions?

Sounds like some intense Boston Marathon moments.

Also you sound like a really nice guy to let other people win, I'm sure this is pretty standard in races. Everyone here should be aiming for second or third place from now on.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

I didn't question if it happened.

It did.

I'm questioning why a group of runners don't find it absolutely incredulous that Ryan Hall is telling all the other Americans "hey slow up" mid-race.

And the only explanation seems to be "well because he wanted Meb to win!" As if that's an okay reason to tell other guys trying to PR "dude, don't push the pace" IN A RACE!!!!

Enough is enough wrote:

Ok- This is beyond enough guys.

#1- Why would you doubt that this happened? There are MULTIPLE guys who mentioned it. Why would they lie about it?

Keep up.

Crying Man wrote:

Now, how about answering my questions?

Ok

Crying Man wrote:Still, if you are going to claim to speak for everyone perhaps you could provide your qualifications. How did you become certified as the official mouthpiece of every single runner? Are there others who hold such an exalted position? Where does one go to sign up for this remarkable position of authority?

I was voted in.

No.

You don't sign up.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Crying Man wrote:

Four times that I can think of off the top of my head.

Once I let my son win when he was an all-county XC in HS (but I could still beat him). I let him get the win in a road race.

Twice I let teammates win XC races - once in HS, once in college.

Once I let a neighbor win a road race. He was a good guy and the only black fellow in town. I thought it would be good for the town to see a black guy win.

Now, how about answering my questions?

Sounds like some intense Boston Marathon moments.

Also you sound like a really nice guy to let other people win, I'm sure this is pretty standard in races. Everyone here should be aiming for second or third place from now on.

There you go, speaking for others again.

Here is a little hint for you in life - try speaking for yourself. You are probably qualified for that.

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

Crying Man wrote:

Now, how about answering my questions?

Ok

Crying Man wrote:Still, if you are going to claim to speak for everyone perhaps you could provide your qualifications. How did you become certified as the official mouthpiece of every single runner? Are there others who hold such an exalted position? Where does one go to sign up for this remarkable position of authority?

I was voted in.

No.

You don't sign up.

Ok, those are good answers. Have to give credit where credit is due.

Crying Man wrote:

Ok, those are good answers. Have to give credit where credit is due.

I'm probably coming off like a jerk.

I just find it amazing that Ryan Hall is being applauded for telling people to slow up in a race.

Usually we don't care about intervening in races to lead your teammates to victory. But that's typically in the fashion of a rabbit that pulls everyone along and makes them run faster.

Here we have one of the biggest marathons of the year. Mid-race the best US runner is in a pack of elite US runners telling them to not push the pace, to hold up?!?!

I guess people are saying "well it was so self-less and patriotic to help meb" But really? That's OK by runners standards? Tell other people to not run so fast so someone else can win to make the story good.

Regardless of if they were paid to do it, that's a fix.

Like, ohhh, try not to score too many runs guys...we need the Reds to lose this game.

That's the definition of throwing the game. The only thing that's saving it from being completely appalling is a money trail.

Maybe they realized that it was a good idea, not just because it might help Meb win (they knew none of them were winning) but ALSO that it might be a good idea for the benefit of their own performances? Ryan Hall has lots of marathon experience and most of those guys respect his racing wisdom as well. I would bet that them holding back a little at that point improved their end result.

These kind of tactics happen in every cycling race. A guy gets out in the break, and all of his teammates sit in the pack while the other teams have to chase. They are not going to help the rest of the group catch up to their teammate.

Yesterday's race was one of the most compelling marathons I've seen in a long time, and I think it was precisely because it was more like cycling: Meb is out in Jens-Voigt-like breakaway that everyone presumes is ill-fated from the beginning. The pack thinks, "We'll catch him. We're patient. We're faster. He'll blow up."

So they let the lead extend too far. Finally someone from the bunch realizes it's almost too late, striking out to catch Meb/Jens. But they underestimated the toughness of the guy out front, and the game of "will he get caught?" makes for a very exciting finish.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

Meb is out in Jens-Voigt-like breakaway that everyone presumes is ill-fated from the beginning. The pack thinks, "We'll catch him. We're patient. We're faster. He'll blow up."

Yet if another American had decided to go after it, somehow the Africans would have a different reaction? That's what we're being told to believe.

True, but in cycling the riders have ear pieces and are being told what to do by their team managers. If marathoning had a comparable system, I'm pretty sure the East Africans would have started chasing sooner and Meb/Jens would have been caught.

Question for those who know about such things: do elites get any info during the race about how far they're behind the lead? [or how for ahead they are if they're in the lead]

ConspiracyTheorist wrote:

I was voted in.

Funny, the ballots didn't reach the intelligent people.

You can bet that if it was Ryan Hall they would have followed. If some other Americans are pushing the pace in the pack, my guess is that the Africans will think, "we must be going too slow, let's pick it up."

barry mccockiner wrote:

Yet if another American had decided to go after it, somehow the Africans would have a different reaction? That's what we're being told to believe.

Cycling has not always had radios. In fact, some organizations are trying to get rid of them. They claim it will make the races more exciting because more breaks will get away and stay away.

dkny64 wrote:

True, but in cycling the riders have ear pieces and are being told what to do by their team managers. If marathoning had a comparable system, I'm pretty sure the East Africans would have started chasing sooner and Meb/Jens would have been caught.

Question for those who know about such things: do elites get any info during the race about how far they're behind the lead? [or how for ahead they are if they're in the lead]