Farah vs Mutai NYC 1/2

oskmsk wrote:

No one is underestimating Farah. It is actually true that if they would push the pace, then he would have no chance at winning. Did you not see how easily Bekele beat him in the half marathon?

Easily ? so beating him by ONE second in half marathon is considered easily in your book?? WOW

5 gold world championships 1 silver and 2 Olympics gold 3.28.81 1500 m and still no respect for Mo around here, what a shame

oops - 1 main sub variation for each but a second sub variation for one.

Mo has every right to make living just like everyone else .Track and Field athletes life span is very short , you can call him money hungry/chaser but at the end of the day he has to think what is best for him and his family .

You are absolutely right , Mo could have shattered Komein 3000m world record of 7.20 this past summer , but keep in mind he was going for the World championship in Moscow and he didnt want to risk injury for the sake of destroying a world record and i'm not sure if his coach would have allowed it to be honest with you .

i'm fairly certain that MO will attempt world record in 10000 5000 and 3000 in due time , be patient as i'm

tony the tiger wrote:

Mo has every right to make living just like everyone else .Track and Field athletes life span is very short , you can call him money hungry/chaser but at the end of the day he has to think what is best for him and his family .

You are absolutely right , Mo could have shattered Komein 3000m world record of 7.20 this past summer , but keep in mind he was going for the World championship in Moscow and he didnt want to risk injury for the sake of destroying a world record and i'm not sure if his coach would have allowed it to be honest with you .

i'm fairly certain that MO will attempt world record in 10000 5000 and 3000 in due time , be patient as i'm

I have no problem with Mo making lots of money. It's things like showing up for that celebrity 100m and not even making an honest effort that bug me. Or that ridiculous 1/2 marathon race against Geb & Bekele where he got a big appearance fee, had no competition from the world's current best at the distance and didn't even manage to win. Yuck.

Anyway, I really hope you're right about Mo taking a rip at some big track times while he still can. Or if he doesn't, at least justifying his move to the roads with some impressive results and not just a bunch of impressive paydays for second-rate results.

While I'm at it - I don't see anyone "shattering" 7:20.xx for 3000m. The best runners of all time - Geb, Bekele, El G - have tried to break that record and none of them have come close. Mo has demonstrated a unique combination of 15000m and 100000m speed that I do think shows the potential to break that record, but in my mind "shattering" it would mean beating it by over 1% = something like 7:16 flat, and I think Mo would agree that simply isn't happening. [partly because if he goes for the record, he won't risk starting out fast enough to run a time like 7:16 flat = 58 low / 400m]

Also, for place in history, breaking Komen's 3000m record would have been a WAY bigger deal than adding 2 more world champs golds to Mo's [now impressive] collection of major medals. [again, cf Yifter].

tony the tiger wrote:

oskmsk wrote:

No one is underestimating Farah. It is actually true that if they would push the pace, then he would have no chance at winning. Did you not see how easily Bekele beat him in the half marathon?

Easily ? so beating him by ONE second in half marathon is considered easily in your book?? WOW

5 gold world championships 1 silver and 2 Olympics gold 3.28.81 1500 m and still no respect for Mo around here, what a shame

Yes, if you actually watched the race you will see that Bekele had absolutely no trouble beating him. That is the definition if easy. Whether it was one second or ten seconds doesn't matter. It's HOW he won, not by how much.

You are delusional. No one is disrespecting Mo. We are just pointing out his weaknesses. That is not disrespect so stop saying that. Every runner has a weakness. Yes, even Mo Farah.

You are in fact overestimating him. His golds were all won using the same sprint tactic off of very very slow paces. Also, the competition was weak. Farah is a great runner but you are exaggerating his accomplishments. He is the dominant runner in a weak era.

dkny64 wrote:

But can Mo be bothered to post times? No. He hit that crazy fast 1500m time and he's got a credibly fast 10000m time to his name, but in the two events where he might just be able to take a rip at a big WR - the 3000m and the 5000m - he can't be bothered to even try.

I too am not a fan of Farah for similar reasons. I agree that money is likely a motivating factor for him. But I don't think that's why he didn't attempt any records.

I think it's clear that the entire NOP sacrificed some of their endurance in order to gain their great sprint finish ability last year. So I don't think Farah was even capable of coming near the records. MAYBE the 3000, but not anything longer.

You may disagree, but why would he be ok with time trailing a 1500 and running 3:28 but not attempt a 5k or 10k time? What sense does that make? Why would he dodge Bekele in the Pre 10000m? Why was the rest of the NOP so underwhelming last year when they were put in fast races? Why does Farah always use the same sit and kick tactic and why does he always slow the race down and try to intimidate people?

In my opinion, Salazar and NOP bluffed their way to a championship by creating the image that Farah had great endurance as well as great 1500m speed. Unfortunately nobody called it until Bekele did during that half marathon. There it was clear that Farah had lost a great amount of endurance.

Well said sir!

Let's give the devil his due. To run that fast a 1500m, sweep the 5000m / 10000m at worlds and run a competent 1/2 marathon all in the span of, what, 2 months, is very impressive. It's just not what I would call "serious".

Serious, to me, is running a very fast time in a race you win.

Is 3:28.xx for 1500m impressive? Of course. Did he win the race? Not even close.

Is sweeping the 5000m/10000m at world champs impressive? Again, of course. Were the times impressive? no.

Was that 1/2 marathon competent? yes. Did he beat anyone currently among the best in the world at the distance? no.

Bottom line: yes, Mo Farah is a first-rate runner who might have a shot at joining the true greats but seems [to me] to be pissing that opportunity away.

Mutai will dominate the race start-to-finish. Farah will hit the wall somewhere around 11 km if he decides to stick with mutai's hot pace.

Mo said on twitter that a win is more important for him than a fast time.

Expect a tactical race above 60min.

You think it's going to be a slow race? Im sure mr mutai will just sit and kick haha what a joke. Mutai will be gunning start to finish not play the game mo always plays. . Mo will be crop dusted!

[/quote]Unfortunately nobody called it until Bekele did during that half marathon. There it was clear that Farah had lost a great amount of endurance.[/quote]

Not sure this is true, the Great North Run was nothing to do with endurance, Bekele just kicked when Mo wasn't expecting it and Mo let him go to far before trying to run him down. Mo had been advised before not to go too hard down the final very steep downhill which is exactly when Bekele kicked.

Just clever racing from Bekele and not so much from Mo. It certainly wasn't some kind of all out endurance off from start to finish.

Once and Future wrote:

Not sure this is true, the Great North Run was nothing to do with endurance, Bekele just kicked when Mo wasn't expecting it and Mo let him go to far before trying to run him down. Mo had been advised before not to go too hard down the final very steep downhill which is exactly when Bekele kicked.

Just clever racing from Bekele and not so much from Mo. It certainly wasn't some kind of all out endurance off from start to finish.

You're right, it wasn't an all out endurance race, but the fact that he could not catch up and pass Bekele is the most telling. His final 400m was barely under 60 and it was all out. He died before the end of the race. That is where his decrease in endurance was exposed. You don't need a full on time trial to see that.

KB won easily in some degree thanks to Mo being tactically a novice. Bekele took off on that hill, and Mo just casually let a massive gap build up. The fact that he came back at Bekele like that, making up 30+m over the final 800 suggests to me plenty in the tank.

He could have gone with Bekele. What we don't know is if Bekele could have kept ratcheting it up had Mo done that and managed to drop him.

LM wrote:

KB won easily in some degree thanks to Mo being tactically a novice.

Unfortunately this is correct. Frankly I hope my hero KB retires now. I don't want to see him lose against 20 yo African marathoners. I doubt Mo will be a great marathoner though.

LM wrote:

KB won easily in some degree thanks to Mo being tactically a novice. Bekele took off on that hill, and Mo just casually let a massive gap build up. The fact that he came back at Bekele like that, making up 30+m over the final 800 suggests to me plenty in the tank.

He could have gone with Bekele. What we don't know is if Bekele could have kept ratcheting it up had Mo done that and managed to drop him.

No, we do in fact know that Bekele could have kept ''ratcheting it up'' because that's what he did. When Farah caught back up, Bekele turned to a higher gear and easily created a gap.

Farah on the other hand ran out of gas and was hunched over at the end of the race. That is the exact opposite of suggesting that there was plenty in the tank. If there was plenty, then why would he have started dropping back? And why was his last 400m so slow? That race at that speed should have been a piece of cake for Farah if he was really in decent shape (but he wasnt).

He had to close a large gap to another top class runner who was trying to maintain a gap over less than a mile. Not a suprise he couldn't respond as well when KB kicked again with 100-200 to go when Mo caught him as he'd already been having to push significantly harder to close the gap.

The fact that he got as close as he did after letting such a large gap open at the end of a half is testament to a fair degree of endurance I'd say.

It would have been incredible if he had overhauled such a large advantage against such a good runner over such a short remaining distance.

If it is under 59, I think Mutai will win this battle

In the 59s it goes either way

Anything in the 59 high - 60+, it will take an African fartlek to drop Mo

Don't make the mistake and be deceived by the Great North Run performance. That was the end of the season after Mo's double gold. He had to tour all those radio, TV shows etc. For Bekele, quite the opposite.

Mutai has a chance against Mo but this race is far from over.