North Central College XC Training

Pretty sure he meant to say they either do a 5 mile tempo OR a 4xMile workout every Monday.

They do a 5 mile tempo and 4x1 mile every Monday during XC. On Wednesday they do a 5 mile tempo, hills, and then a fartlek. My understanding is that the tempo is a progressive and doesn't start very fast.

I don't know the exact pace of Monday's "5-mile tempo" to the park, but I ran at NCC when that part of the workout originated. It used to be just a 5-mile warmup run to the park , but after an early season poor performance, volunteer assistant Ken Popejoy (a former sub-4:00 miler and a sub-4:10 miler in his 40s when he was coaching with Al) turned it into what felt like a 5-mile race to the park. I remember getting there and wondering how I was going to do mile repeats. It ended up being a great workout! We continued the hard 5-milers to the park for the remainder of my time at NCC and it appears they still do it that way (we had no idea what a "tempo run" was in the late 80s - it was just a "hard run.")

Wednesdays are hills. Used to run at Four Lakes ski hill in the 80s and early 90s, but now they go to a place called Blackwell. Long tempoish warmup run followed by hills and then fartlek.

Tuesdays and Thursdays are easy. Often race on Friday and long runs on Saturday. I'm not sure what they do on Fridays these days, but in my day we always did a 2-mile time trial on the track on Fridays if we didn't race. I'm not sure if they do that anymore.

BTW, I am, pretty sure the mile repeats in the park are a little short.

Thanks for your response, I had a feeling it was just a uptempo 5 mile warm up and that the mile repeats were just a little short. A true 5 mile tempo and 4x1 mile @ 4:30 avg w/90 would be very tough! Not that what they are doing isn't , but 5 miles at roughly 5:10-5:20 for that group then 4x1 @4:30 would be crazy fast!

I spoke with the head coach an an assistant at the coaches convention a couple years ago. Great people, crazy amount of success, probably the most successful coach in the country if you look at the results with of course zero scholarships. I have great admiration and respect for them. They have about 50 stories about things such as the 10:50HS guy who became a 29:50 guy, etc.

His lectures don't really reveal much. They talk about team bonding, team unity, believing in yourself, believing in your teammates, etc with no mention of training other than the 6 AM morning run.

That is why I had to talk to him afterwards about what they actually did. It is not for the faint of heart. It is rigorous work on the handful of key fundamentals to success in distance running and it is repeated over and over and over again.

It consists of:

1) running twice a day 5-6 days a week. He noted that there was a 4 year period around 2010 I think in his 50 year career where he made the 600 AM run "optional" and most didn't show up. It was the worst 4 years in program history as far as NCAA finishes. He made it mandatory again and presto they were NCAA champions again in the first year.

2) Gradually building up mileage over 4 years to very high mileage.

3) Gradually increasing the weekly long run to very long.

4) Once a week doing a 5 mile tempo run.

5) Once a week doing 5 x 1 repeats at tempo effort.

6) In the last 6 weeks replacing the 5 x 1 mile with repeat 1000s at hard anaerobic effort

Then win or nearly win NCAA D3 XC team title and repeat year after year after year for 50 years

It is as simple and mundane as it is extraordinarily hard to be willing to stick to for 4 straight years and as it is extraordinarily effective.

If you are the typical LetsRunner looking for those elusive low mileage success stories or that magic workout that is going to improve you by leaps and bounds, run for the hills. This is your worst nightmare. Go back to fantasizing about being the next low mileage Bernard Lagat.

That kind of workload is impressive and shows what it takes to be the best. I just wonder how are they able to keep their guys healthy? What do they do for core, etc to prevent injuries?

Impressive wrote:

That kind of workload is impressive and shows what it takes to be the best. I just wonder how are they able to keep their guys healthy? What do they do for core, etc to prevent injuries?

He did not talk about that type of stuff so I don't know what if anything they do in that area. They don't over race and they don't do killer workouts and they don't carry on hard workouts for too many weeks. The work load is high but they gradually build into it, so I assume all those things help to keep them healthy. Keep in mind this was a 15 minute conversation during the drinks before dinner part of the coaches convention, so not everything was covered.

I think Hird is injured this year. They have so many guys on the roster that they can afford to have a few injuries. Many male D1 teams only carry 12 guys.

Impressive wrote:

What do they do for core, etc to prevent injuries?

core, lol k.

idk? walk around, exist, keep themselves upright whilst running tens of miles per wk?

I have helped out for a few years now at school in North Central's conference and have always been impressed by their program, not just in the results but in the way the team acts at meets. I remember when we hosted a cross country meet a few years ago, the whole team came and shook our head coach's hand after the race which I'm sure is something Coach Carius teaches in practice.

I know you hear the team focus, rah rah stuff over and over but its true- a big part of their philosophy is preaching team over everything and I remember a regional meet where they didn't run a guy who should have been their #1 guy because they didn't think he fit well with the other guys and had done something selfish the previous race although I'll be honest I don't know what exactly happened.

Workout wise, pretty sure they've been doing the same thing for the last 30+ years.

Monday is a building 5 mile tempo with the last few miles close to race pace, followed by 4xmiles w/ 90 rest. Pretty sure they switch to 800s/ change the rest as the season goes on.

Wednesday is a 5 mile building tempo, then 6xsteep hills at Blackwell Forest Preserve that a few colleges and high schools in the areas use, can get pretty crowded when we're all out there. Then a fartlek after.

Tuesdays and Thursdays are recovery days, Saturdays on non-meet weeks are 2 hour long runs, and like most teams, their varsity races every other Friday. Not sure if they workout on Fridays if they don't have meets or not.

The 6am practice everyday is true and I know they do core and other strengthening stuff as well.

High mileage for most of the guys and they have their fair share of injuries but not anything that would be any different than any other top level program.

I know a big part of their program is individualizing stuff more injury prone runners do less millage freshman are capped at 75 minute long runs from what I hear, some of the faster guys go closer to 2 hours. I think a lot of their success has to deal with the team mentality, everyone seems to buy into it fully. They also care a lot about legacy, overall they seem to be doing every aspect of running cross country right.

Seriously, after seeing many big meet results this year: Nuttycombe, Louisville, Notre Dame and smaller scale meets, Loyola and Bradley, if you are a good runner in the Midwest-especially Illinois-why go to a big school to just get worse? There are a handful of kids developing to a good, but not national level, but so many are spending their college career at 26-27 min for 8k. Is cost or title really that much of a factor to have a lack luster college career?

The only reason that NCC May have a better track record of developing runners is that they are starting on a lower level. NCC turns 9:40 guys into 14:20 guys while D1 programs turn 9 minute guys into 13:55 guys. The 9 minute guys were already training at a higher level so they have less headspace.

Cost should always be a factor. If your state school is $25k and your local D3 school is $50k, it seems like a win-win for most kids if they get accepted in the team at the D1.

Old local Hobby Jobber here. This is Blackwell / Mt. Hoy for charity fundraising event -

http://hustleupthehillforthehomeless.com/

They are going both up and down the hill. Looking up at the hill toward the left / east there is more of a gradual path back down and around, which I do for regular hill training. In the charity event the downhill is the killer, and I do a side to side downhill to ease the strain on the quads, as it is a damn steep hill.

Several high school teams can be seen out there at various times, including Naperville North when Pendergast was there.

Blackwell Forest Preserve and adjacent St. James Farm have plenty of flatish trails for pre- and or post-hill runs.