All-time Time Machine Championship Results - Men's 1500m

Nobody cares about your stupid lists.

Shows you know even less about 1500m than 800m, which is saying something.

You hav 2 convicted dopers on that list, which means their names should definitely be removed.

There is another who had a positive A sample, 2 whose form dropped considerably when their coaches were under scrutiny, and most of the others had careers that suggest likely doping.

Welsh Wizard wrote:

Shows you know even less about 1500m than 800m, which is saying something.

You hav 2 convicted dopers on that list, which means their names should definitely be removed.

There is another who had a positive A sample, 2 whose form dropped considerably when their coaches were under scrutiny, and most of the others had careers that suggest likely doping.

I acknowledge there are dopers in the time machine meet, proven or otherwise. Unfortunately many if not most or all of history's greatest runners used or use PEDs. The meet does not disqualify athletes with proven PED usage, as we want the best athletes. Also, there are a lot of unproven PED users that used PEDs. The times and results are adjusted accordingly for likelihood of doping and other factors such as weather, track, era, etc etc. This time machine meet puts all runners in history on a level playing field (or track in this case).

Total racist BS. Ever heard of Herb Elliot? How about Nick Willis?

Not Even Close wrote:

Total racist BS. Ever heard of Herb Elliot? How about Nick Willis?

Herb Elliott is like 10 seconds off the WR, dude. Not even in the discussion.

Nick Willis is a much more legitimate contender but his PR is still very, very slow for an all-time race.

Sanjay Gupta wrote:

Herb Elliott is like 10 seconds off the WR, dude. Not even in the discussion.

Clearly you have never raced on a cinder track. In addition, you don't know your history. Herb was one of the greatest competitors of all time. The fact that he is not in the conversation (not to mention Jim Ryun) tells you all you need to know about the idiotic mind of the OP.

Not Even Close wrote:

Sanjay Gupta wrote:

Herb Elliott is like 10 seconds off the WR, dude. Not even in the discussion.

Clearly you have never raced on a cinder track. In addition, you don't know your history. Herb was one of the greatest competitors of all time. The fact that he is not in the conversation (not to mention Jim Ryun) tells you all you need to know about the idiotic mind of the OP.

Who says Elliott wasn't in the conversations. He simply didn't make the finals. The finals in the 1500m is only 12 runners, so it's a VERY ELITE group. Holding some WRs and winnign some medals doesn't necessarily guarantee to make such an elite group when EVERYTHING is considered. Runners from all time are evaluated for speed, endurance, heart, balls, possible PED usage, era, tracks, conditions, etc etc. No shame for not being one of the 12 best EVER.

There was a separate thread to determine team USA for this meet. Ryun was definitely discussed, but it ended up being Lagat, Maree, and Centro. That's who would win in an all-time USA meet most often. Only 3 from each country could compete, so its VERY hard to make the meet in the 1500 from team USA. Only the top 3 americans ever could be included. Ryun could still be considered one of the best ever, certainly from his era, but the meet is so elite that sometimes even that doesn't make the cut.

You don't consider any of those things. You simply look at all-time fastest times and list those. For crying out loud, you put David Torrence and Evan Jager ahead of Jim Ryun on the US list.

Your ignorance of this sport is appaling. Yes, you are IGNORANT!

I n a time machine Peter Snell or Herb Elliott would win, REMEMBER THEY RAN THEIR PRS ON CINDER OR GRASS TRACKS!!!

Evan Jager didn't make the US list. Torrence made it at the very bottom, partly because he was an awesome runner and partly because of sentimental reasons. But I only had him at the very bottom and he really wasn't in consideration of the top 3 which is what mattered. In the end, only 3 could make the team USA, the 3 who would most likely finish in the top 3 in an all-time USA list, and the consensus was Centro, Maree, Lagat - a VERY ELITE top 3. Ideally a guy like Ryun could have still been in the all-time time machine championships, but wanted to limit to 3 a country to keep things interesting and consistent with the olympics.

An all-time great pharmaceutical experiment.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Evan Jager didn't make the US list.

In the discussion about Ryun (or Ryan as you call him), you admitted that Jager was a better 15 guy than Jim. I about spit my drink out laughing at that nugget.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

...the consensus was Centro, Maree, Lagat - a VERY ELITE top 3.

No, no it wasn't. Your stupid list followed by a bunch of people telling you how wrong you are is not consensus.

And Steve Cram ran faster than most of the guys on your list.

Crickets...

Not Even Close wrote:

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Evan Jager didn't make the US list.

In the discussion about Ryun (or Ryan as you call him), you admitted that Jager was a better 15 guy than Jim. I about spit my drink out laughing at that nugget.

I think I admitted that Jager had a fast PR and would make the list on that alone, but more has to be taken into account. I'd definitely take Ryun over Jager in the 1500. Who wouldn't?

formerbosox9yo wrote:

...the consensus was Centro, Maree, Lagat - a VERY ELITE top 3.

No, no it wasn't. Your stupid list followed by a bunch of people telling you how wrong you are is not consensus.

And Steve Cram ran faster than most of the guys on your list.

Crickets...

You should consider me a moderator of public opinion. On the team USA selection thread I simply started with the obvious top 3, and the next 7 in order of the best in the USA EVER to spur discussion. When there is a compelling reason to change things up, we do. Like we would consider replacing Torrence at the bottom of the top 10 with Ryun. When it came down to it, Centro, Lagat, Maree were a VERY STRONG consensus representation for team USA. Likewise, on the 100m results thread, we agreed Bolt's time was too slow, should be changed to be in the 9.6s, but consensus agreement that he was still the winner. We arrive to those determinations before the next thread is started.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

If all athletes in history took a time machine to compete in one championship track meet, these would be the results (limited to 3 athletes per country):

Men's 1500m Final:

1 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 3:26.48

2 Bernard Lagat KEN 3:27.87

3 Asbel Kiprop KEN 3:28.18

4 Noureddine Morceli ALG 3:28.26

5 Noah Ngeny KEN 3:28.64

6 Venuste Niyongabo BDI 3:29.96

7 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 3:30.28

8 Taoufik Makloufi ALG 3:30.36

9 Said Aouita MAR 3:30.40

10 Mehdi Baala FRA 3:30.54

11 Abdelati Iguider MAR 3:30.60

12 Ali Saidi-Sief ALG 3:30.63

Assuming that Kiprop would have the tactical prowess to excel in what undoubtedly would be a very tactical, very crowded race is a very big if as just about every other name on your list has been demonstrated to be more savvy.

Not only are you ignorant of the sport of track and field, you clealyr don't understand the meaning of the word consesnsus. You sure use it a lot, though. I'm sure you mean well.

BS wrote:

formerbosox9yo wrote:

If all athletes in history took a time machine to compete in one championship track meet, these would be the results (limited to 3 athletes per country):

Men's 1500m Final:

1 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 3:26.48

2 Bernard Lagat KEN 3:27.87

3 Asbel Kiprop KEN 3:28.18

4 Noureddine Morceli ALG 3:28.26

5 Noah Ngeny KEN 3:28.64

6 Venuste Niyongabo BDI 3:29.96

7 Ayanleh Souleiman DJI 3:30.28

8 Taoufik Makloufi ALG 3:30.36

9 Said Aouita MAR 3:30.40

10 Mehdi Baala FRA 3:30.54

11 Abdelati Iguider MAR 3:30.60

12 Ali Saidi-Sief ALG 3:30.63

Assuming that Kiprop would have the tactical prowess to excel in what undoubtedly would be a very tactical, very crowded race is a very big if as just about every other name on your list has been demonstrated to be more savvy.

What does "very" tactical mean? Every championship race has equal amount of tactics - Rudisha in 2012 winning in 1:40 was his tactics as much as centros in 2016 winning in 3:50. Neither is more or less tactics, they just had a some runners using different tactics in each of them. In time machine men's 1500, most likely outcome is El G would win in 3:26, stringing out the field behind him, half failing to break 3:30 in their attempts for a medal. Kiprop would finish 3rd in 3:28 in this most likely scenario.

Trying to figure out your system.

You have Aouita 9 and Coe is not listed.

Aouita's PR is only 3 tenths faster than Coe but Aouita has never won a Gold and Coe won two.

Silas Kiplagat is one of only 5 men to run 3:27 plus he ran 3:30 or better 6 years in a row.

He doesn't make your list at all but Souleiman, Baala, Iguider and Saidi-Sief do?

And your "Championship "race is won in 3:26. I guess you have Saidi-Sief setting the pace and still managing to run 3:30.

OP has no system. He is a racist moran who knows nothing about track. Deliberately left off three of four white dudes who clearly deserve to be on the list. Even the French dude he included is African.

Well, Elliott. of course, has to be treated as a special case.

1) He only ran internationally for two seasons 1958 and 1960.

2) You could almost say that he took 1959 off.

3) He retired at 22., and at that age, either Coe, Ovett or Cram or El Guerrouj , had won a Olympic/World title or had broken a world record.

If Elliott had been a full-time athlete God only knows what he could have done.

Because of his lack of consistent training, Elliott arrived in Rome. and only improved his 1958 1500m best by 0.4 sec which is no improvement at all. Indeed, Elliott, because of lack of preparation, was not as good in 1960 as he was, as a 20yr old, in 1958.

If ever there was a miler/1500m runner with a "what if" hanging over his head, it's Elliott.