You can hate on El Guerrouj all you want, but not for being a cheat.

Top 25 1500m times:

Rank Result Athlete Nation Date Location Ref

1 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj Morocco 14 July 1998 Rome

2 3:26.34 Bernard Lagat Kenya 24 August 2001 Brussels

3 3:26.69 Asbel Kiprop Kenya 17 July 2015 Monaco [7]

4 3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli Algeria 12 July 1995 Nice

5 3:27.64 Silas Kiplagat Kenya 18 July 2014 Monaco [8]

6 3:28.12 Noah Ngeny Kenya 11 August 2000 Zürich

7 3:28.41 Timothy Cheruiyot Kenya 20 July 2018 Monaco

8 3:28.75 Taoufik Makhloufi Algeria 17 July 2015 Monaco [9]

9 3:28.79 Abdalaati Iguider Morocco 17 July 2015 Monaco [10]

10 3:28.80 Elijah Manangoi Kenya 21 July 2017 Monaco [11]

11 3:28.81 Mo Farah Great Britain 19 July 2013 Monaco [12]

3:28.81 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya 18 July 2014 Monaco [13]

13 3:28.95 Fermín Cacho Spain 13 August 1997 Zürich

14 3:28.98 Mehdi Baala France 5 September 2003 Brussels

15 3:29.02 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen Kenya 14 July 2006 Rome

16 3:29.14 Rashid Ramzi Bahrain 14 July 2006 Rome

17 3:29.18 Venuste Niyongabo Burundi 22 August 1997 Brussels

18 3:29.29 William Chirchir Kenya 24 August 2001 Brussels

19 3:29.46 Said Aouita Morocco 23 August 1985 Berlin

20 3:29.46 Daniel Komen Kenya 16 August 1997 Monaco

21 3:29.47 Augustine Choge Kenya 14 June 2009 Berlin [14]

22 3:29.50 Caleb Ndiku Kenya 19 July 2013 Monaco

23 3:29.51 Ali Saidi-Sief Algeria 4 July 2001 Brussels

24 3:29.53 Amine Laalou Morocco 22 July 2010 Monaco

25 3:29.58 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti 18 July 2014

Guess how many of them doped?

I feel like you could replace ElG in this story with lance Armstrong and it would have sounded the same 5 years ago

Let me guess, every non-white person?

5krun123 wrote:

Let me guess, every non-white person?

I suspect all elites of doping including the top white guy's. Just go to the Wikipedia page on the 1500m and click on the pages of the top 25 1500m times. Asbel Kiprop tested positive for EPO. Asbel Kiprop tested positive for EPO. Rashid Ramzi tested positive for EPO. Saïd Aouita never tested for for anything, but as the head coach in Australian athletics he pushed PEDS onto his athletes. Amine Laâlou tested positive for EPO. 5 Out of the top 25 are confirmed dopers. Plus there is sh!t that you can't test positive for i.e. blood transfusions. And, there is stuff they use that isn't banned i.e. Actovegin.

Just my 0.02

O.K., so what is the logic you're using here? You're attempting to show it's implausible that the top 25 doped, and the 26th (Nick Willis) didn't?? Isn't at least as obviously ridiculous to believe that the top 25 guys in the world are all African or African descent?

However you want to explain it, that list is odd, and it's hard to explain without being....'racist'.

Most of the doping apologists here think that it's explained pretty simply by Africans possessing some greater natural talent than Europeans. Everybody dopes, it's just that Africans are better runners, whether doped or not.

When challenged of course, you deny this and come out with some excuse about Kenyans running to school every morning and such. So it's a 'cultural difference' that explains the makeup of the list. This isn't racist, it is however racist for somebody like me to use a similar cultural explanation that uses the obvious fact of Africa being more corrupt leading to greater doping rates, and hence domination of the top list.

You say there's a perception that El G snitched on teammates he suspected or knew were cheating. I know that at least one or two of his training partners were eventually busted. I'm sure he'd know if his training partners were rocket fueled, and he evidently didn't 'snitch' on them when they were together.

The biggest reason I have for finding it hard to believe he was clean is the fact he retired in 2005, just when the first EPO tests were introduced. You'd think he'd want to carry on, if not for the money and winning more medals in themselves, but simply because he must have known that people would suspect him of wanting to avoid the tests by retiring at 29.

Very, very few sportsmen ever 'retire on top', even when they've got millions in the bank. Look at how boxers keep going until they're completely washed up, risking brain damage and the like. Before the 80s, it was common for Olympic champions to retire, such as Snell and Herb Elliott, but that was more because of the financial challenges of being a top athlete at the time, not because they had enough money to retire. They had to get a real job. Ovett and Cram carried on for years when they were clearly no longer even medal contenders. Coe only retired (at 33) because he had a career in politics lined up for him. I find it hard to believe that a Moroccan could choose to retire at 29 when he still had years of multi-million dollars earning potential ahead of him.

What's your opinion on the fact that many of El Gerrouj's training partners were eventually busted? What about Kada's connection to ped busts amongst his other prized pupils? I'm hoping for your sake that you're a troll. I am also part Moroccan, and even I am not fooled. Don't let national ppride and adulation make you bias.

10x400 in 53" with 30 rec. It's impossible. That effort is equivalent, at least, to a 3:24 low/3:41 for the mile. Do you realize how difficult is to break 3:41 for 1500? Let alone a 3:41 mile.

5krun123 wrote:

Hello everybody,

I've seen countless people hate on Hicham El Guerrouj in here, doubting his record, their only real argument was that he was from Morocco, and dominated the EPO era.

Being from Morocco and dominating the EPO era may not be enough evidence to bust him but to anyone who knows anything about the history of the sport, it's certainly enough evidence to be pretty certain he was a cheat.

Let's be honest, if someone had a gun to your head and you had to get the correct answer to 'Did El G cheat or not'? in order to live, even you are going to say 'yes' because it's the only reasonable explanation for his performances.

Let him take a lie detector test. They are extremely accurate.

Sand Dunes wrote:

5krun123 wrote:

Let me guess, every non-white person?

I suspect all elites of doping including the top white guy's. Just go to the Wikipedia page on the 1500m and click on the pages of the top 25 1500m times. Asbel Kiprop tested positive for EPO. Asbel Kiprop tested positive for EPO. Rashid Ramzi tested positive for EPO. Saïd Aouita never tested for for anything, but as the head coach in Australian athletics he pushed PEDS onto his athletes. Amine Laâlou tested positive for EPO. 5 Out of the top 25 are confirmed dopers. Plus there is sh!t that you can't test positive for i.e. blood transfusions. And, there is stuff they use that isn't banned i.e. Actovegin.

Just my 0.02

More like 6 out of the top 25: Ali Saidi-Sief tested positive IC for Nandrolone at the 2001 WCs:

Koauch got busted for EPO in 07:

My brother if you think El G was clean you is higher than than the international space station.

Rekrunner and ex-letsrunner both think El G was squeaky clean.

Say what you want. I once was talking to a top 1500 runner and he said he thought El G was dirty. I asked him how confident they were that El G was dirty. They said, "110%."

Do you often pretend that you can speak for others? You are really very bad at it. More significant than what I allegedly think, 43% of letsrunner's believed his world record performance was clean. Not everyone falls victim to Moroccan stereotypes.

Coevett wrote:

Rekrunner and ex-letsrunner both think El G was squeaky clean.

rekrunner wrote:

Do you often pretend that you can speak for others? You are really very bad at it.

More significant than what I allegedly think, 43% of letsrunner's believed his world record performance was clean.

Not everyone falls victim to Moroccan stereotypes.

Coevett wrote:

Rekrunner and ex-letsrunner both think El G was squeaky clean.

43% of letsrunners are naive.

Doped or not, what this guy did was insane. Look how consistently he ran sub 3:30, the next guy on the list for that mark is probably kiprop and he's miles away even while doping. If I had to guess, yes he doped but many/all his competitors were then he was on a level playing field and still dominated.

There are many, many countries where u can get whatever drug you want without a prescription. I am certain many federations coaches took advantage of that fact and their athletes were still trounced by this man time and time again.

100% of the international runners from spain, morocco, algeria from aouita through ramzi were on PEDs up to their eyeballs.

they thought it was just state of the art sports evolution.

and they would be right.

the next breakthrough in mass will come with new drugs,proteins, gene doping,

the genie got out of the bottle a long time ago.