What is it with me and tempos????

Sounds like your tempo pace is not what you think it is.

Do cruise intervals first and slowly progress into doing tempo runs, also do some marathon pace long runs.

Need more info wrote:

Sounds like your tempo pace is not what you think it is.

This. Though we don't "need more info" - we have all the info we need. If your tempos are too hard to run 1.5 miles then it's not a tempo.

Need more info wrote:

Sounds like your tempo pace is not what you think it is.

No it’s not that because I base my tempo pace off a recent 2 mile time trial I ran like a month ago. I started off adding 30 seconds but I found that to be too difficult to maintain so I kept adding time. As for more info Ive been running for a little over a year and I’m a are gong 45-50 mpw

Try doing it on on a track or a flat bike path. The issue is probably that you are trying to run your 5k pace + 30 seconds or so (which I am assuming you ran on a track, road, or decently fast XC course) on a trail or thin, uneven, busy sidewalk with lots of traffic stops.

Mistaogtrump wrote:

Need more info wrote:

Sounds like your tempo pace is not what you think it is.

No it’s not that because I base my tempo pace off a recent 2 mile time trial I ran like a month ago. I started off adding 30 seconds but I found that to be too difficult to maintain so I kept adding time. As for more info Ive been running for a little over a year and I’m a are gong 45-50 mpw

Read this and get back to us.

does heat have anything to do with it? this time in summer everyone is running slower than they were racing in the spring and fall.

if not, build up some mental strength by doing cruise intervals - 8 x 800 at tempo pace. Then do 4 x mile at temp pace, then do 2 x 2 miles at tempo pace...then do a full tempo.

Mistaogtrump wrote:

Need more info wrote:

Sounds like your tempo pace is not what you think it is.

No it’s not that because I base my tempo pace off a recent 2 mile time trial I ran like a month ago. I started off adding 30 seconds but I found that to be too difficult to maintain so I kept adding time. As for more info Ive been running for a little over a year and I’m a are gong 45-50 mpw

You're flat out wrong. You don't base your tempos on anything else but how you feel when running them. Tempo runs should feel exhilarating -- during and after

Your handle changed, but I'm assuming you are the OP. If you've only been running for a year you need to take the pace charts with a grain of salt. Most runners in their first couple of years have trouble running tempos at those paces because those charts suppose a certain aerobic development than what a fairly new runner has had time to develop. When we bring new runners into our program we ask them to do their tempos between 1:00 and 1:10 slower than their current 3200m pace (many new runners don't know what their 3200m pace is, which presents its own problems, but that seems to be a good starting point). Even if it turns out that the pace is too slow, at least I know that the athlete can get some benefit from running the entire time. I would much rather have the runner in a nice rhythm for the full time at a pace that is a little too slow, than to be dragging over the second half of the tempo (which will make recovery take longer) or to stop in general. If it was too slow, there will be another tempo run next week to make that adjustment, but a new runner is going to gain fitness from that anyway.

I find that teaching an athlete to run tempo correctly is one of the hardest things to teach. I will often break the tempo into mile repeats with 60 seconds of rest before I give a true tempo run. This allows the athlete to adjust if he or she makes a mistake. Something else I have done is had athletes run a loop where the goal is to do a tempo run, but if they end up in over their heads, there is a point where they can stop and cut across in order to reset themselves, then jump back in with their group when the group comes around the full loop.

Just remember that there is a pace for you to run that will maximize your benefit and it is not necessarily the time that comes off of the chart. If you can run your tempos 10 seconds slower than the guy you compete with and get the exact same benefit, then lucky you. Take advantage of it.

If it’s a big session, 4x2, you’ll need to be fuelled up properly and run on a clear route.

TheOgDonaldTrump wrote:

Seriously. Whenever I attempt a tempo I always bomb the pace. To play it safe I added 50 frickin seconds above my 5k pace per mile but I still struggled. I did 1.5 miles at said pace and I was pretty much dead. I didn’t want to quit so I tried to maintain that pace but failed and came through at a whole minute and 10 seconds slower than my projected pace for the last 1ish mile. I’ve done progression runs, mile repeats, 800s etc at way faster than my tempo pace and I always kill those workouts so I don’t what the deal is. My diet and sleep has been sound.

Out of curiosity, what exact minutes per mile paces are you running? For me, 5K pace plus 50-55 seconds has consistently been marathon pace. That was true when 5:10 was 5K pace, and it's true now when 6:10 is 5K pace.

So, your 5K + :50 pace should be approaching marathon pace. Surely you can maintain that for 3 miles. Are you estimating your 5K pace (and tempo pace) on the 2-mile time trial you mentioned? Was it an accurate 2 miles? Any recent races at all?

If you were running less than 20 mpw, I would suppose it to simply be underdeveloped endurance. But at 40-50 mpw, that shouldn't be the case (not too much, anyway ... that has generally been my mileage).

As has been suggested, I would start with 1-mile repeats (3) at perceived tempo pace -- not checking splits -- and taking 2-minute recoveries. The next week progress that to 1.5-mile repeats. Then 2-mile repeats, then try a 4-mile tempo run.

Good luck.

Don't obsess about exact pace on tempos. IMO people (including me in the past) often start tempos too quickly and dig themselves a hole.

Try starting out at MP for the first mile and then get progressively quicker.

And if you insist on paying close attention to pace, then at least make sure you are running on a flat surface. Some may disagree, but I think tracks are great for tempos because they are flat and you can adjust your paces if needed.

malmo wrote:

You're flat out wrong. You don't base your tempos on anything else but how you feel when running them. Tempo runs should feel exhilarating -- during and after

So true, you guys need to learn to train by feel and effort not by what the damn Garmin says.