How to do a depleted long run?

How I do it:

I get lost on a long run while on vacation/buissness trip, I keep up my pace until I can't. Than I just jog around until I find my hotel. Often it goes on to the point where I am walking. Than I eventually find someone to use their phone to call someone to pick me up.

Don't start out of nowhere. You will suffer in an unproductive way.

End goal is 2-3 hours with no breakfast at a solid pace. Not race pace, but firm to moderate pace.

A progression of things to try before you get there:

Double after morning workouts.

Regularly run your morning run without breakfast.

Run a regular long run with breakfast after an evening workout the night before (and dinner after).

Moderate workouts without breakfast. Like, 2/3 of your normal tempo run without breakfast. Or a full tempo run +20 seconds per mile.

Depletion runs aren't about food, they're about the glycogen in or not in your system when you start. You could also manipulate your meals, such as a keto meal or two before long runs.

Also know that while science says their important, science hasn't done anything to weigh the costs/benefits. It is possible your body won't adapt in a meaningful way at all, depending on your age and experience. If you haven't done any of the above before, don't try to squeeze it all in into one marathon build up; your body won't adapt fast enough. If your a mature runner (30+) make that progression happen over a few years. If you have done those, also know that doing depletion runs right will take a lot out of you for a few days. Treat it like a hard workout in terms of the few days after.

How does a 61 year old who can't run more than 4 miles do a depleted run one step at a time.

Day before the depletion run I eat a low carb diet with my last meal at 2pm

Depletion day no food just do a 3 hour walk/hike, warmup drills and strides then a 4 mile uphill tempo walk back total of 18 miles in a glycogen depleted state. On the final 4 mile walk I am higher than a kite I see the beauty of nature tears stream down my face.Major Mito Stimulation!

This question was asked in a very "hobbyjogger" way.

I run every day without breakfast, and never think of it as a depletion run. I am guessing a lot of people do this- especially people who have to run before work.

Isn’t this normal? wrote:

I run every day without breakfast, and never think of it as a depletion run. I am guessing a lot of people do this- especially people who have to run before work.

Not a depletion LONG run.

I frequently run 10-15 miles before work and without breakfast. Maybe not a ‘long’ run but ‘medium’ at least, right? I turn 40 this year and have only been running decent mileage (25+ mpw, currently at 45 mpw) for less than a year.

Isn’t this normal? wrote:

I run every day without breakfast, and never think of it as a depletion run. I am guessing a lot of people do this- especially people who have to run before work.

You're right. My point is that if you don't do that already, you can't jump right into depletion runs and have them be effective training.

Is this a real thing? I usually never eat anything before long runs, and rarely feel a need to even fuel or water during long runs (unless it's a really hot day). I am also training to run sub-3 for a debut this fall. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I haven't heard of depletion runs before. I mainly do like taking fuel on long runs because I don't like having to carry anything with me. I've been doing 18-20 mile long runs ~7 flat pace and feel fine.

there's a big difference wrote:

Isn’t this normal? wrote:

I run every day without breakfast, and never think of it as a depletion run. I am guessing a lot of people do this- especially people who have to run before work.

Not a depletion LONG run.

How long are your long runs? This whole thing is ridiculous. I normally run in the mornings, including my Saturday long runs. I never eat before any of them.

Is 14 miles long enough for you? You don’t need to eat or drink anything if you’re only going that short

Whether you eat something right before or not doesn't make a huge difference. Your glycogen stores have mostly been determined by how you ate and exercised the day before. If you were really low on glycogen and you ate a banana or a bagel in the morning, you'd still be depleted by the middle or end of your run. On the other hand, you could eat enough the previous day such that you wake up and run 15 miles without eating and you wouldn't get depleted.

So you need to do a bad job of replenishing glycogen on purpose. Eat fewer carbs. You could do a PM run and then eat a low-carb dinner. Or just generally eat fewer carbs throughout the day and especially at dinner, and perhaps have an earlier or smaller dinner.

Personally I'm on a weird schedule right now where I eat dinner around 4pm (and no snacks after), I'm asleep by 8pm, I wake up around 4am, and I start my run around 6am. If I have a low-carb dinner and don't eat before my run, then 15 miles would definitely get me in a depleted state long before I finish.

But I used to have days where I would finish a massive dinner at 9pm, asleep by 10pm, wake up at 5:30am to run, and I'd still be so full from dinner that it's uncomfortable. Running 9 hours after a massive high-carb meal or running 14 hours after a modest low-carb meal are so different that it'd hardly matter whether I snack in the morning.

irunfastXC wrote:

there's a big difference wrote:

Not a depletion LONG run.

How long are your long runs? This whole thing is ridiculous. I normally run in the mornings, including my Saturday long runs. I never eat before any of them.

Is 14 miles long enough for you? You don’t need to eat or drink anything if you’re only going that short

Nope, that's not long enough. Glycogen depleted long runs are a marathon-specific practice and marathon training generally involves much longer runs than that.

I thought depletion runs have long been a tried and true staple of most any 'serious' runners repertoire. But based on most of the responses here (small sample, I know), most of the posters on here don't have a clue. Surprising.

hi moran!

kmaclam wrote:

I thought depletion runs have long been a tried and true staple of most any 'serious' runners repertoire. But based on most of the responses here (small sample, I know), most of the posters on here don't have a clue. Surprising.

I don't see the point of glycogen depleted runs. You start a marathon with full glycogen stores, so you have to be able to run economically with both full and nearly empty glycogen stores twenty something miles later.

Mitochondrial biogenesis

Trained subjects

 Sprint interval training is a powerful inducer of PGC-1α, and other genes regulating

mitochondrial biogenesis (study II)

 Exercise with low muscle glycogen enhances the expression of PGC-1α, and other

genes regulating mitochondrial biogenesis (study IV)

 Eight weeks of concurrent strength and endurance training does not enhance

mitochondrial content (CS-activity) or performance (study V)

https://gih.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:766681/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Oh please. Mitochondrial biogenesis is a normal biological process. You don't need any special training, it happens naturally because mitochondrial density is essentila in almost every cell of the body.