Well that didn't take long: Asbel Kiprop gives up fight to prove innocence - Says he doesn't have resources to fight IAAF

lols the brits and their self love on here is out of control

"most notably dwain chambers"

you guys love your heros, and now your bragging the biggest EPO bust in sprinting was dwain! lolz

sorry to bust your british ego but i think these were bigger fish than dwain

#1. ever heard of MARION JONES?

#2. Zhanna Pintusevich-Block

#3. kelli white

#4. dwain chambers/alvin harison/antonio pettigrew/jerome young

#5. chryste gains

dwain might be big news in the UK, but really you claim he is the most NOTABLY sprinter nabbed for EPO?

jerome young : He was caught doping in 1999, and was ultimately banned from the sport, which cast suspicious shadows over his entire track & field career....yet we are to always assume that a kenyan only did it that one time and they were clean their entire career

killi white : After her positive test, White admitted guilt and testified before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). All her performances since December 15, 2000, were annulled. She was banned for two years by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, effective May 17, 2004......she was busted in 04, and said she didnt start doping till 02, so why did the CAS annul her results all the way back to 2000? yet everyone on here keeps saying kiprop only did EPO once and only once and was a 3:26 no matter what

pettigrew : In 2008, prosecution documents related to the trial of coach Trevor Graham listed Pettigrew as one of Graham's athletes to have used performance-enhancing drugs.[3] Pettigrew then admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs and testified against Graham at his trial in May 2008.[4] Although IAAF rules currently do not retroactively alter results more than eight years after the event, Pettigrew returned the medals he won in that period.[5][6] The 2000 Sydney Olympics 4 × 400 m relay U.S. team was stripped of their medals after Pettigrew admitted that he had used performance-enhancing drugs.

so iaaf wont go back 8 years even though he admitted to it, at least he gave back his medals and didnt make lies

so where are the people calling me an idiot again? so there was a study linked on this thread just RECENTLY that showed what % gain?

and for you guys who are so fast to insult me why not try to figure out something instead of just pulling the childish

"your dumb" as your only way of conversating

then to think that im so dumb that i think people are taking EPO on race day for 100m-marathon....dear lord how many times do i have to repeat myself

its USED during the build up base phase for EVERYTHING. as canova said about epo..."it only helps a person get back into top fitness faster without putting in the necessary work"

but we know better than that dont we? it does that and MORE...it allows you to know operate at a lower HR while at the same intensity as BEFORE.

for 100m in the off season, say the workout is 12x400 @ 62 seconds with 5 min rest, and before the HR was at 150, now on them sauce this same workout the HR is at 130....so to maintain the 150 HR, the repeats are now being done in 60....thus MORE WORK THAN BEFORE WITHOUT STRAINING.

thought you would like this subway and wherever casual is....sorry rek and ex runners....more busts i know i know i need to stop cause its damaging to your cause

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/sports/spanish-police-arrest-6-athletes-on-suspicion-of-doping-bust-dealing-ring/50000266-3657078

around 26 seconds into it, classic...what is all that sh*t on the table and the ghetto rigged bottles with tubes coming out of them.....

lolz

keep talking sh*t and hating on me, keep telling me you 20yr old ex runners who MAYBE ran at a d3 or naia scrub school...keep telling yourself i dont know anything about this sport, or what a good time is or that i was a scrub hs runner lolz

keep looking in your moms basement mirror and saying "i am a bada$$, i am a 14:00 5k guy, i am married to a super model, i make $250,000 a year....and mindweak is dumb dumb and EPO doesnt work, in fact i dont think it exists, its a myth to keep the poor africans down"

oh and at 44 seconds....what are those? looks like vials of some sort of injectable liquid....i mean placebo

here is another article about it

check these out will ya

"Among those arrested was Ethiopian runner Gizaw Bekele, who won the recent Madrid half-marathon race, police sources told EFE.

"Six athletes arrested in the anti-doping operation. Growth hormones, insulin, testosterone and transfusion materials have been seized," Spain's National Police said on its site."

putting back in that EPO sauced blood that was developed while training in the off season back in ethiopia i would presume

this is great! lolz

"The organization also acted as a smuggling ring, using athletes' trips to Morocco, France and Italy as cover to smuggle in drugs concealed in their luggage."

well we know morocco is a haven for PEDs and lately me, subway and casual have been saying ITALY is a main spot as well

wonder where at in france they are going to get PEDs?

lolz lolz lolz

Putting aside if the reason can be described as "logically based", you only need to read my posts to see what I don't get, why I don't get it, and for that matter what I actually preach. I speak clearly, and give many examples. Let's say EPO works, and it works for everyone, under every condition, for sprinters, distance runners, race-walkers, bowlers, race-car drivers, chess players, male and female, and in between. What I don't get is why it failed to succeed for so many for so long: - Russians with almost a decade of state sponsored doping, leading the world with 30% rate of abnormal samples, could only succeed with women and race-walkers - In 1993, before the amazing 1994 Kenyan/Ethiopian performance explosion, China only succeeded with Chinese women - In 1993, the first Kenyan breaks 27:00 for 10K, followed by some 50 East and North Africans, running as fast as sub-26:20, while only in 2010, Chris Solinsky becomes the first non-African sub-27:00 runner, 18 years later, and then after the ABP is introduced I can go on and on and on, with near universal lack of success stories from 5 continents for nearly three decades -- the list can fill many threads for years. Why don't you get it?

Just Amazed wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

You keep forgetting that this has been going on for decades. If EPO would only provide a placebo effect, athletes/managers/coaches would have - during their attempts to find the best doses - found out that the best concentration is equal to zero.

+1

Most logically-based reason why EPO is effective - why doesn't rekrunner get it? (btw, how long has he been preaching his Gospel that EPO doesn't work?).

More busts do not damage my cause. I prefer when you post something authoritative, rather than attempting to interpret it for us.

m!ndweak wrote:

thought you would like this subway and wherever casual is....sorry rek and ex runners....more busts i know i know i need to stop cause its damaging to your cause.

i dont post authoritative.....i can only do that if i was a 20yr old ex college runner or some hobby jogger ex pat living in europe to do that.

all i can do is post real stuff and then try to make logical correlations. then others insult, harass, badger, and say really offensive...i mean NICE things about me. its like wow man, so many people on here get SUPER PISSED and fired up on the EPO issue...

things you dont talk about in public places with friends and family

-religion

-politics

-sex

-anything related to EPO

so ten years ago i could with arrogance talk sh*t, insult and offend anyone cause then i would have been a 20yr old ex college runner...or i have to wait 10 yrs or so, move to europe and coach kids...that seems to be the only way i can talk on here win authoritative power. but in 10yrs running will prob be so amateur cause PEDs killed the sport that my knowledge of anything will be completely useless....

but until then i will keep waiting to see rosa and canova fall from grace

rekrunner wrote:

Don't see how this matters. He used other drugs too. Not a very scientific approach to show that EPO helps one-day stage races.

It's an anecdotal because you quoted Hamilton - so that wasn't a very scientific approach that EPO only works for 3 week GTs either wiseguy. Museeuw used EPO & HGH - standard operating procedure for cyclists back then. Go give Armstrong a call - he'll tell you. ?

And I see EPO & HGH is the program utilized by this "high-profile" Ethiopian female runner:

rekrunner wrote:

I can go on and on and on, with near universal lack of success stories from 5 continents for nearly three decades -- the list can fill many threads for years.

You can go on and on and on, but the "near universal lack of success stories from 5 continents for nearly three decades" is simply not true.

Looking at your selected 5 continents over that time period, I find:

- improvements over 1500 m (both the record, as well as "your" top-5 average)

- improvements over 5000 m (both the record, as well as "your" top-5 average)

- improvements over 10000 m (both the record, as well as "your" top-5 average)

- improvements over the marathon (both the record, as well as "your" top-5 average)

Picking the male Russian 5000 m does not show "near universal lack of success stories from 5 continents for nearly three decades"; it merely shows that not everyone improved over every distance.

Seriously, you just keep making stuff up, even when it's so obviously wrong. Again, why do you lie so much?

I hope people don't mind me visiting here. I'm been bullied so much by ultra douches on other threads. I feel safe here knowing that there is a war going on in this thread(mostly mindweak rekrunner). I can get my asylum from the ultra douches knowing that everyone here is busy arguing about doping to bully me.

Thanks for the link M!ndweak,

Kebede Gizaw Bekele half marathon bests pre 2018

PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE

2015 1:06:15 Getafe (ESP) 25 JAN 2015

2013 1:06:56 Madrid (ESP) 07 APR 2013

2012 1:06:45 Madrid (ESP) 01 APR 2012

Then this year in Madrid

1:03.16

Just for you M!ndweak, a 4.5% improvement in one year. But I'm not sure what they've found in the raid.

Sorry, name a bigger sprinting bust that admitted to using EPO specifically or tested for EPO specifically?

Dwain was involved in an incredibly sophisticated doping system which was a huge bust at the time. He was involved in the BALCO scandal, if you know what that was. Huge scandal.

He was 60m world champion and won 100m world bronze.

Your post for winter 100m training again demonstrates you know nothing. 12x400m in 62s? What? Sprinters in the winter work on strength and technique. They mostly train indoors. I know because I've trained at the same facilities as top sprinting groups lead by Linford Christie. 12x400m in 62s is not a sprinters training session.

rekrunner wrote:

More busts do not damage my cause. I prefer when you post something authoritative, rather than attempting to interpret it for us.

Man...you're snarky as hell today! But we have to be careful what we say to you because of the preferential treatment you get where we get deleted for smartass remarks and you don't!

Give it up casual observer - It's pointless anymore to debate with someone who's acting like a total d*ck on this issue.

Que Sera Sera....

True. But I am not correcting him for his sake, rather because I don"t want to keep his lies unanswered.

That's a solid post. ? I went back and looked at your data - and it's accurate. I think rekrunner has backed himself in a corner now that he can't get out of. He's become bitter, condescending, demeaning, and even goes as far as correcting people on their grammar - a sure sign that's he losing the debate.

Rekrunner is the only one left standing who believes EPO is ineffective with elites and is nothing more than "faith" based with it's historic widespread use. Something like 160+ EPO positives and 3 decades of use, WR holders, Olympic & WC Gold medalists - all for an ineffective "faith" based PED. Lol. Even someone like "ex-runner," who may disagree with some of the empirical higher reported percentage gains in certain events, agrees that EPO is an effective endurance PED.

I see with rekrunner the white flag coming or he won't post on EPO topics anymore.

m!ndweak wrote:

thought you would like this subway and wherever casual is....sorry rek and ex runners....more busts i know i know i need to stop cause its damaging to your cause

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/sports/spanish-police-arrest-6-athletes-on-suspicion-of-doping-bust-dealing-ring/50000266-3657078

Unbelievable! Another Spanish doping ring?!? This makes how many now?...four over a 22 yr period? ?

1. Operation Puerto (2006)

2. Operation Galgo (2010)

3. Operation Skype (2012)

Regarding the lack of improvement in Russian 5000m times. Doesn't that rather suggest that EPO is effective, given that the example he keeps pointing to (as an example of lack of improvement) is a country that only a decade or so before the EPO era ran one of the most sophisticated state sponsored doping systems in history, and likely all their 1500 and 5000m runners were regularly blood doped for decades?

Also, is he actually even comparing Russian times in the EPO era with Russian times before EPO? Or is he comparing Russian times in the EPO era with Soviet Union times before EPO, which is a very different thing, given that most top Soviet Runners came from outside Russia?

Barrel of Laughs wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

thought you would like this subway and wherever casual is....sorry rek and ex runners....more busts i know i know i need to stop cause its damaging to your cause

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/sports/spanish-police-arrest-6-athletes-on-suspicion-of-doping-bust-dealing-ring/50000266-3657078

Unbelievable! Another Spanish doping ring?!? This makes how many now?...four over a 22 yr period? ?

1. Operation Puerto (2006)

2. Operation Galgo (2010)

3. Operation Skype (2012)

Sounds like an economy built on PEDs.