Realistically, how good am I even going to get if I keep training hard? :/

"Metabolic abnormalities" or not, there's only one way to find out how good you can get by training hard and it's not asking about it on a message board.

HRE wrote:

"Metabolic abnormalities" or not, there's only one way to find out how good you can get by training hard and it's not asking about it on a message board.

If I want to come on a message board in my spare time and talk about the issues I deal with whilst running (which is why message blards exist) and create a discussion about it then I will. I have already done my training today.

I wanted to see if there were any other runners who struggle with something like this and how they deal with such issues. I am seeking advice on how to improve because the same training that benefits neurotypical people doesn’t seem to benefit me.

First off, it's physiologically impossible to not lose weight if you're taking in fewer calories than you're burning, so just save us all the thyroid story.

Secondly, if you want to improve your 5k time you're running far too few miles. The 5k is an aerobic event, so training anaerobically isn't directly helpful. Biking will also do very little for you, it's a totally different sport and movement. The schedule you just outlined has you running 5-6 miles per week. You will not improve much, if at all, running that little. Build to be able to consistently hit 25-30 miles per week with an 8-10 mile long run on the weekend, and then go from there. You really only need to have one speed session built into that, probably some amount of 400 or 800 repeats would be good for you. Your 5k time will get dramatically better.

Your training is not even remotely geared to 5k, or distance running in general. You aren't running enough, and when you do it's all intervals and a tempo. Plus, the interval training distances are way too short.

Start running 6 days a week, mostly easy, and increase your mileage. Your BF will likely drop a bit in the process, too.

I noticed there is no continuous running other than a 3-4 mile tempo run in your weekly schedule. You do some biking, but the amount of this is not very high either.

If you like to see improvement on your level of endurance some continuous easy runs in the 30-60 min range would be a good .

Anne Audain was born with club feet. As a kid she needed 13 operations on her feet. She became arguably the most successful woman's road runner of her era. Lorraine Moller had serious health issues as a kid, I can't recall the specifics anymore, it's in her autobiography, and became one of the people you'd use if you wanted to argue that Audain wasn't the most successful road runner of that era. Bob Schul had really bad asthma and won an Olympic gold medal. I get wanting a discussion but the fact remains, you won't get an answer to your question unless you decide you're going to train hard and see what happens.

fatlogic wrote:

First off, it's physiologically impossible to not lose weight if you're taking in fewer calories than you're burning, so just save us all the thyroid story.

Secondly, if you want to improve your 5k time you're running far too few miles. The 5k is an aerobic event, so training anaerobically isn't directly helpful. Biking will also do very little for you, it's a totally different sport and movement. The schedule you just outlined has you running 5-6 miles per week. You will not improve much, if at all, running that little. Build to be able to consistently hit 25-30 miles per week with an 8-10 mile long run on the weekend, and then go from there. You really only need to have one speed session built into that, probably some amount of 400 or 800 repeats would be good for you. Your 5k time will get dramatically better.

No it is not physiologically impossible, do some real research. I have had this confirmed by a doctor and I have had a complex genetic test confirming that by metabolism does not work the same as a normal person and that I have missing genes so if you are totally healthy and have never had to deal with anything like this then I suggest you stop making assumptions and consider yourself lucky because I’d like to see you ever break a 30minute 5k with the condition/body I have. My doctor calls it a “genetic snip”.

As for the training that I’m doing, it seems to be helping me improve.

At the start of the year this was my training plan:

Mon 4 miles tempo

Tues 6miles easy

Wed 3 miles easy

thurs 6 miles moderate

Fri 10x400@ 1:40

Sat

Sun 9 miles long run

800s every other week plus strides 3x a week.

I was doing everything right but my 5k was staying stagnant around 26 minutes.

The point i’m trying to make is my body doesnt work the same as most people here so why would the same training benefit me? I have to REALLY push it more often to see improvements. The only way you would ever understand is by having a disorder similar to this.

I do however agree that I need to add more volume into my plan at the moment. I am thinking of building up to this:

Mon 15x100 @ 95

Tues 40 mile bike ride

Wed 15x400 @ 90 sec

thurs easy or bike ride

Fri 8x800 @ 3:35 pace

Sat easy or bike ride or off

Sun 4 mile tempo/ long run of 13 miles every other week.

The biking really seems to be helping me at the moment as I find it is a more efficient way to get long aerobic work in and also strengthen the function on my legs.

Partridge wrote:

I noticed there is no continuous running other than a 3-4 mile tempo run in your weekly schedule. You do some biking, but the amount of this is not very high either.

If you like to see improvement on your level of endurance some continuous easy runs in the 30-60 min range would be a good .

Yes I am building up to holding my tempo pace fir 45 minutes as I find that would probably be a lot more beneficial than plodding away at 10min mile pace for two hours

You barely run. If your goal is to get faster at 5k, you need to start running a lot more.

Charlz wrote:

I am not trolling.

You surely understand that this is really hard for us to believe, right? Afterall, you pretty much jump from one LRC clickbait topic to the next:

- female

- unspecified metabolic issues

- keto diet

- high body fat

- extremely low mileage

- lifting as distance running training

- crazy fad diet

- adding "I'm not trolling" into your original post

- HIIT/thinly veiled xfit reference

- preemptive hostility towards any advice that doesnt answer only the question you asked in the very narrow scope you requested

I'll take you at your word, though, and give you a serious answer:

We cant tell you how much faster you can run. However, I think that if you get onto a normal diet, run some reasonable mileage, and seek hormonal treatment for your thyroid issue, you could likely drop minutes from your 5k over the next year.

I would also suggest that it is possible you have emotional issues with exercise/food and that talk therapy with a qualified professional may be beneficial to you in your overall life.

You havent specified your thyroid issue, but based on the fact that you are complaining about a high body fat, it would imply that you have low to no hormone levels. In that case, treatment is fairly simply, if imperfect: daily pills to substitute your thyroid hormones. If the current level isn't working, you just ask your doctor if you can adjust.

Charlz wrote:

No it is not physiologically impossible, do some real research. I have had this confirmed by a doctor and I have had a complex genetic test confirming that by metabolism does not work the same as a normal person and that I have missing genes so if you are totally healthy and have never had to deal with anything like this then I suggest you stop making assumptions and consider yourself lucky because I’d like to see you ever break a 30minute 5k with the condition/body I have. My doctor calls it a “genetic snip”.

I don't doubt you have a thyroid problem but if you fasted with just water for 40 days under medical supervision you would lose weight. The world is not flat.

Looking at your training, you could get a lot faster by just adding more easy miles over time.

But i’ve done the whole “adding easy miles in” for years on end :/ most of the benefit people get from doing that is the metabolic conditioning which has NO effect on me because I am lacking the gene function that usually responds to that kind of training. This is kind of the whole reason I am asking advice in the first place. I have been reading thos board for years, I know exactly how a lot of you train- it just doesn’t work for me. Then only time I ever see any benefit at all is when I am doing a buttload of high intensity every day.

Emotional issues with food? Explain? I don’t starve myself or throw up or eat too much and I enjoy eatimg healthy snd view food as fuel. I don’t understand why I would need therapy for that?

I am on levothyroxine and have been for 4 years. Thank you for your reply.

What is your height/weight? Also as been said, your running volume is too low. 40mi week avg would be good for you with a 4-6mi tempo once a week and a track workout every week or every other...8x400 or 6x800..etc.

Charlz wrote:

But i’ve done the whole “adding easy miles in” for years on end :/ most of the benefit people get from doing that is the metabolic conditioning which has NO effect on me because I am lacking the gene function that usually responds to that kind of training. This is kind of the whole reason I am asking advice in the first place. I have been reading thos board for years, I know exactly how a lot of you train- it just doesn’t work for me. Then only time I ever see any benefit at all is when I am doing a buttload of high intensity every day.

Seems unlikely that you have done what you are currently doing plus another 30 miles of easy running a week. You really believe you have done that?

Woooaah there, what?

"But i’ve done the whole “adding easy miles in” for years on end :/ most of the benefit people get from doing that is the metabolic conditioning which has NO effect on me because I am lacking the gene function that usually responds to that kind of training."

Again, wwhhaaat?!. This needs explaining...

This thread could rival the counting trees one, great potential.

Charlz wrote:

But i’ve done the whole “adding easy miles in” for years on end :/ most of the benefit people get from doing that is the metabolic conditioning which has NO effect on me because I am lacking the gene function that usually responds to that kind of training.

No, you aren't.

Charlz wrote:

This is kind of the whole reason I am asking advice in the first place. I have been reading thos board for years, I know exactly how a lot of you train-

No, you don't.

Charlz wrote:

it just doesn’t work for me.

Yes, it does.

Charlz wrote:

Then only time I ever see any benefit at all is when I am doing a buttload of high intensity every day.

It doesn't look like it's working to me.

I'm not sure I'm buying this thread either and I'm no expert but...

Run more miles, 50 or 60 per week, at least 40. It looks like you're only running 10 or 15 right now. If you've tried that and it didn't work (like you say), then do longer intervals, 800s, 1200s, mile repeats. 100s and 300s aren't going to cut it. Get a second or third opinion from another doctor about your health issues. If nothing works then remember that 22 minutes for a female isn't talented but it isn't terrible either (probably faster than median for a high school cross country meet, and those girls are mostly training to race) and it may be about the best you can do.